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People in homeless camp near Visalia told to move

VISALIA -- People living in a homeless camp along the St. John's River outside of Visalia will have to be moving on.

Tulare County authorities served notice Saturday to the 35 to 40 people living in the camp that they'll have to move off the property by today.

Sheriff's spokeswoman Chris Douglass says the crackdown comes after complaints about health and sanitation on the private property.

(Nov. 16, 2009)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Mrs.D wrote on Nov 17, 2009 10:48 AM:

" I'm sure there are some abandoned businesses in Tulare County that can double as a homeless shelter. "

Angie wrote on Nov 17, 2009 2:34 PM:

" Mrs.D- I'm sure Tulare County would appreciate your idea as much as Kings County would appreciate moving our homeless people into the old Walmart building. "

Mrs.D wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:14 PM:

" The old Wal-Mart is being paid to be empty. If it can't be turned into a money making rollerskate rink for kids, it's not suitable to hold precious human life for the winter. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:28 PM:

" Well, we could offer up the Bastille for the homeless if that great outside parks and recreation outside consultant recommendation of a kids rec center falls through... "

luvbugzmom wrote on Nov 19, 2009 1:00 AM:

" Please dont get me wrong..I do feel sorry for those who are homeless in Tulare County/Kings County or where ever they are. BUT enough is enough..I felt sorry for these people until I see them sitting on the corner talking on there cell phone, walking down the street talking on a cell phone or buying laptops in walmart. These people do better than us who are actually working to make ends meet. SO PLEASE DONT GET ME WRONG but if they can afford cell phones they can better themselves. "

formerhanfordguy wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:05 AM:

" Gee, instead these right wing Central valley churches are sending money to battle gay marriage and hating gays, why aren't they helping the homeless in your own backyard?? Mormon church where are you? WOW!! "

Mrs.D wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:04 PM:

" There's no law saying a homeless person cannot purchase a pay as you go cell phone. "

SuziQ wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:29 PM:

" Yeah, the Mormon church and the Teacher's Union. And then there's all the money you Libs are wasting in our state and our nation. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:27 PM:

" to formerhanfordguy,

How do you know for a fact that the Mormon church isn't helping out? They could be like everyone else, at their limit of being able to help. Once word gets around, more come, i.e. make a better mouse trap and they will all come running.

I agree with turning the old walmart into something, not necessarily a homeless shelter, but maybe it could be subdivided, part of it for holding illegals, part of it for fixing the city/county vehicles, part homeless shelter. Just make it that though, just a shelter with the basics, a bunk to sleep on, communial bathrooms (that is already located in the building, one for men and one for women). Something that can keep them out of the elements, but then again something that will also entice them to better themselves. If you make it too comfy, then you will then end up with more and more that don't want to leave. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:28 PM:

" I'm sure these helpless people voted for "change" in the last election. Like the rest of the conned Democtratic party they elected someone who only pretends to care about them but loves Oprah and ACORN. "

luvbugzmom wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:29 PM:

" Mrs D you are 100% right there is no law towards that but go figure if your homeless are you really going to take money and put it on a cell phone. I mean wouldn't you want shelter, food, clothes..A cell phone isn't a necessity, unlike food, shelter or clothing. I have driven the road daily where the homeless guys sit, to see them talking on a cell phone, while collecting tax-free money while many of us work to make ends meet, is an easy way out. Our money is taxed, there money isnt because they dont want have to report it like we do. So to me there is a big difference.
Everyone has a different opinion about the homeless situation, so why fight a loosing battle. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 20, 2009 1:57 AM:

" formerhanfordguy wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:05 AM:
" Gee, instead these right wing Central valley churches are sending money to battle gay marriage and hating gays, why aren't they helping the homeless in your own backyard??

Oh my God!

Not ANOTHER special interest group being persecuted for one reason or another!

I am sure the homeless homosexuals who want to get married are legion, eh?

Still on the "hating gays" bandwagon I see... "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 20, 2009 10:10 PM:

" Just wondering why I have never read about the gays marriage supporters donating money or services to the homeless. If you expect the churches to donate why don't you place the same expectation on all parties? "

Con Carne wrote on Nov 21, 2009 8:34 AM:

" Filling an empy Wal-mart or similar wherehouse size building with homeless people would be fantastic! It conjures up images of the Saints Dome right after hurricane Katrina when it was a disaster shelter. Here's a better idea, put them on a bus to Santa Monica or Carmel. Both cities claim to "welcome" the homeless. "

Ms. MLC wrote on Nov 21, 2009 6:45 PM:

" The real homeless are not the ones sitting at the Walmart corners raking in money. Those people are nothing more than scam artists, that is why they can drive up there in their nice cars, eat out, and talk on cell phones. The real homeless are the ones wondering the streets with their bedding, digging in dumpsters, and yes a lot of them are searching for jobs daily not just standing around with their hands outs and then getting into their cars at the end of the day and driving home. It is too bad someone doesn't try and monitor the fraud going on with those folks who hang out on the street corners at the Walmart Center. "

formerhanfordguy wrote on Nov 22, 2009 6:28 AM:

" The only church in conservative right wing Hanford I see feeding and helping the homeless in mass is the gay friendly Episcopal Church, there soup kitchen is HUGE! Does the Moron church (excuse me, MORMON) have one?.. I think you have to be Moron (sorry, MORMON) for them to help you! "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 22, 2009 8:25 PM:

" It is an interesting observation that begging is actually an acceptable way of life in third world countries such as India and Pakistan.

Do we really want the United States of America to become a third world country - more than it already is; that's the real question? "

Mrs.D wrote on Nov 23, 2009 2:05 PM:

" "luvbugzmom wrote on Nov 19, 2009 10:29 PM:

" Mrs D you are 100% right there is no law towards that but go figure if your homeless are you really going to take money and put it on a cell phone. "

Well, I guess etiquette, good taste, and common sense prevented me from asking the homeless man by Target what he does with all the money he asks for. All I do is do what our Lord and Saviour asked me to do: Love the stranger and help those who can't help themselves. All without asking for a credit report and personal references. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 23, 2009 9:42 PM:

" To the Hanford guy that left, why do you expect the Mormons to pay to help people who are not a part of their church? That would be like Democrats paying to help Republicans. Just seems like a cheap shot against them because you are not in their church and they won't give you any money or free food. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Nov 24, 2009 11:53 AM:

" to the moderator

How can you allow a post like formerhanfordguy's where he purposely denounces one specific religion? Isn't that akin to a hate crime?

I have had many of my posts not "printed" and I have always been cordial, factual and leave out the name calling.

I do not see anything wrong with the Mormon church helping their own, and for all that I know they may also help others, but even formerhandfordguy acknowledges that they help someone. What does he do personally to help the less fortunate?

Mrs. D, I disagree with you some, but first it is your money to do as you please. I am for helping out the less fortunate, but to see the same people day after day parked at the exact same spot implies to me that they are not doing anything to help themselves, and I believe that the Bible mentions that those who help themselves are themselves helped. "

Bobb wrote on Nov 24, 2009 2:53 PM:

" My cousin is Mormon and that is part of the basis of their Religion. If a member is having hard times the Congregation steps up to help. But unlike the US Government, the family in need is given a helping hand not a lifetime of handouts. When that family gets on their feet they are expected to help others in need within the Church. They are also required to have at least one years supply of food and essentials on hand at all times. I see nothing wrong in helping those within ones own Congregation. At least they do not promote generations of families requiring assistance. More power to them. "

Mrs.D wrote on Nov 24, 2009 3:47 PM:

" nothomegrown wrote "Mrs. D, I disagree with you some, but first it is your money to do as you please. I am for helping out the less fortunate, but to see the same people day after day parked at the exact same spot implies to me that they are not doing anything to help themselves, and I believe that the Bible mentions that those who help themselves are themselves helped."

Jesus, in the Bible, said "The least you do for my brothers, is the least you do for me." Roughly translated, we should help those who cannot help themselves.

The Salvation Army is taking food donation for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners. The soup kitchen by the Church of the Saviour on Douty Street is also taking food donation and cash donation to help with Christmas dinner, too. Just passing along good information. "

Deb wrote on Nov 24, 2009 9:34 PM:

" I understand where some of the disdain for (some) churches has arisen. When churches become involved in political activities to promote what some people view as hate against other humans the gloves seem to come off.

This is/was demonstrated with the Mormon Church actively backing Prop 8 and pumping money to those who actively wanted Prop 8 to pass.

Additionally with the Catholic's churches announcement that it will no longer continue it's social service programs if the city doesn't change a proposed same-sex marriage law.

Not sure if the Mormon Church accepts federal funding or not but the Catholic church does.

I respect any Church's right to have theological positions on the issues of abortion and homosexuality, but I'm not truly convinced God really wants them to make those the two overarching issues that trump everything else in church doctrine.

This is what happens when Churches get involved in politics.

With that said - being disrespectful is plain wrong... "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 26, 2009 3:33 PM:

" I truly disagree with Deb on religions being politically involved. I think they should if not must be more involved politically. People join religions to share common beliefs and ethics and religion has always played a major role in politics. Just like political parties, or any of the countless special interest groups, churches and their congregations have a Constitutional right to share their support or lack of support for new laws or propositions. Prop 8 passed because it should have and all the groups supporting it don't need to apologize to anyone. Also, just because a religion accepts federal aid does not mean they have given up their rights of free speech or are required to give away their assets to people who won't help themselves. "

Deb wrote on Nov 27, 2009 10:16 AM:

" Told You So - there are those of us who believe lobbying is wrong too. IF a business or a church or a special interest wants something done, their members individually and collectively need to take on the their federal and state reps, period. Remember - by the people, for the people... That does not include businesses or churches.

But - I understand - it's easier if one throws money in the direction of a group be it a lobby or a church or their industry organization wiling to carry the personal cause(s) rather than becoming active themselves.

Each to their own... "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 27, 2009 2:02 PM:

" Deb, like I said, we clearly disagree on this issue. However, my position is consistent with the Constitution and your view is in total conflict. If I understand your view, no union of any kind, no political pary of any kind, no religion of any kind, no environmental group of any kind, no homeless group of any kind, no anti-tax group of any kind, etc. etc. would ever be allowed to pool resources or people in support of something they believe in, that is what you said. For example, I may not like groups that seek to impose more gun laws and they don't like groups that support more gun rights, but both sides all agree that we have a shared right to fight together for what we believe in. So what have you personally done lately to support what you believe in? "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Nov 27, 2009 2:06 PM:

" to Deb, was it really the Mormons that solely supported Prop 8? I am not a Mormon, yet I voted for Prop 8, and would have done so without a single ad asking me to do so. I am sure that a vast majority of Catholics also voted for Prop 8, and based upon the latest news the Anglicans might have also, since both have joined forces now and are starting to send a strong message to D.C. that they will not support abortion, nor will they acknowledge gay marriages even if it means being arrested. "

Deb wrote on Nov 27, 2009 4:38 PM:

" ToldYouSo - do you also agree with employee's having the right to form unions? "

Bobb wrote on Nov 27, 2009 5:05 PM:

" The homeless were told to move---but where? They are homeless so unless someone wants to provide them with a place to live they have very few options. "

Deb wrote on Nov 27, 2009 5:07 PM:

" ToldYouSo - The constitution says the PEOPLE have the right to petition their representatives. The SC viewed lobbyists as those representing "the people". Generally related to the "Corporate PersonHood" argument. 1886 Supreme Court Case, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394.

I'd suggest that my understanding is closer inline to the Constitution and yours was inline with the SC decision.

My problem is that most lobbyists are funded by Corporate interest and not generally the people with an interest - there are exceptions that even I recognize.

One problem which occurs is when money and gifts become a part of the lobbying equation.

Groups lobbying for those they represent is fine - corporate interests no.

And sorry - I disagree with the entire Bush Faith Based Initiative - it continues to allow for continued discrimination using tax dollars.

Certainly Churches can give to whom they choose out of their own pockets. I do not agree with the Catholic Churches stance in DC. "

Mrs.D wrote on Nov 28, 2009 12:12 AM:

" I'm just curious; What does Prop. 8, Mormons, and government supported abortions have to do with the homeless people of this state? "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 28, 2009 12:42 PM:

" Deb of course I support the right of people to form unions and I also support their right to keep how they voted regarding forming that union a secret too so that their votes are not influenced by others. Do you support ACORN ?? I find them basically disgusting, but support their right to exist. By the way, you are quoting one little case in your argument, why don't you go to the law library and look up "political free speech" then try and find some Supreme Court cases that back up your view. I could fill your house with cases that support my view. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 28, 2009 12:52 PM:

" Deb sorry I missed this in my last post but I think everyone can agree that a "lobbyist" is also a person within the definition of the Constitution and it would be unconstitutional to infringe on that person's right of free speech like you are advocating. Also, I believe you have a legal right to hire an attorney to advocate your views, yet you would consider that unconstitutional too in the area of political free speech if I'm understanding you correctly. Just curious do you support unions having a right to exist and to advocate for better pay and working conditions of their members? I'm hoping you answer this one consistent with your other posts. I also hope your parents are not members of the AARP they won't be happy with you. "

Dandre wrote on Nov 29, 2009 9:18 AM:

" Never HEARD of a homeless person in CA until WHO became governor?
Trickle down this! "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 29, 2009 3:08 PM:

" Dandre I've been donating blankets and clothing to the homeless in our area for many years, long before Arnold or even Obama decided on a new career path. Maybe you just choose to look the other way since that is more convenient for you. Trickle that. "

Bobb wrote on Nov 29, 2009 5:26 PM:

" Forty plus years ago they were called hobo's. Then the name transient was applied and now homeless. Same net result, people living outdoors. Some prefer that lifestyle but most are there because of personal choices that were bad or economic situations. The sad part is more and more are becoming homeless because of circumstances beyond their control. "

Dandre wrote on Nov 29, 2009 9:24 PM:

" Hey. told you so, when st ronnie, many years ago, emptied the State Hospitals the NEED for those supplies went UP, way up.
And the 'trickle down' has done NOTHING but create peons. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Nov 30, 2009 8:07 AM:

" to Dandre, why can't you ever have anything constructive to say? You always try to put the blame on the Republicans alone, yet who controls the State representatives? Democrats. Arnie can't do anything on his own. Yet all of the homeless woe is the Republicans fault? As others have mentioned, some people actually prefer the transient lifestyle. No commitments. Yes there are others that are homeless that don't want to be, and they have my compassion, for some are in that situation due to no fault of their own.
Dandre, if you feel that badly for them, as a good liberal, why don't you turn your home over to them? "

Deb wrote on Nov 30, 2009 8:46 AM:

" ToldYouSo - Acorn is not a lobby. Do I agree with them? That's a mute point in this discussion.

Lobbying is a whole different story. I agree that people have a right to protest through anyone they wish as their representative - but is ATT representing people or themselves and their profits? GE? Exxon/Mobil? Blue Cross? Fed Ex? Nope - but they are influencing how laws are enacted.

That Supreme Court ruling I referenced IS the one that opened the floodgates to Corporate interests shaping the laws of this land. The SC views a Corporation as a person. With this I disagree. As do others.

And, interestingly enough, while you indicate that you are pro unions, "most" conservatives are anti-union.

As for prop 8. It was a vote of the people and yes, passed. But while I try hard not to be influenced by propaganda - it works for many and to distribute propaganda that takes money. Much of that money came from The Mormon Church.

Money creates influence in our wonderful Nation. Undue influence is just plain wrong - even if legal. "

Deb wrote on Nov 30, 2009 8:50 AM:

" ToldYouSo - Yes... I'm pro union and I'm sure some would have guessed that by my liberal social views.

I'm also pro business except to the degree that corporations abuse their power which has been witnessed and documented time over time over our Nation's history.

There must come a point in which one puts humanity before profits. "

Deb wrote on Nov 30, 2009 9:16 AM:

" NHG - I support your right to vote the way you voted and everyone else for that matter.

I'd also suggest that Churches have every right to ask their parishioners to vote in the same manner consistent with that churches belief.

Propaganda works - it may not work on you or me, but it's a time tested approach which works. "

Deb wrote on Nov 30, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Bobb - you're right - I recall hobos. Then came the landmark Lanterman-Petris-Short Act (LPS), passed by the legislature & signed by Governor Reagan.

The idea was to stem entry into the state hospitals by encouraging the community system to accept more patients, hopefully improving quality of care while curbing the state's expenses by the newly available federal funds.

Reagan's role, besides signing the bill, was using it as a reason to cut the budget. What Reagan did at the same time the bill was passed, was laying off around 1700 state hospital employees and closing some State hospitals.

The Act was also was designed to protect the rights of mental patients. The safety net was never fully created and I'd suggest from this arose or began the increase in homelessness.

Add to that in CA skyrocketing living costs, drug addiction, alcoholism, and a myriad of other causes and you've a growing homeless population.

AND, yes, there are some, as always, which make a conscious unimpaired decision to live on the street and even some who use it to bilk the system. "

Deb wrote on Nov 30, 2009 9:37 AM:

" Now even given my compassion toward the homeless and those less fortunate, I've often wondered why local laws concerning loitering are not applied toward those who sit on the street corners? And, as wil be seen in another post, I don't agree with standing at intersections seeking money for good causes. It's dangerous and a distraction and I thank God no one has ever been hurt. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Nov 30, 2009 1:21 PM:

" to Deb, love your last post and I have the same questions, why aren't loittering laws enforced?

As to unions, I guess you know my political views, but I too am for unions, unions that help the people that is. I could never understand people being out on strike for 6 months to win something that would take them years to regain the lost wages during those 6 months. But unions too have become power hungry and abusive.

You state you are against churches giving money to fund different political agendas, then how about unions? After all it isn't the union's money but rather the collective of it's members.

To help you out, here is my opinion, do away with all contributions other than individual, limit that to $200 and change politics back to that, politics and not a business. When you have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for a position that doesn't even pay half a mil a year, something is wrong! "

Bobb wrote on Nov 30, 2009 3:54 PM:

" Not Hojme Grown; You are "right on" in your remarks about the high cost of attaining an office which pays a fraction of that in salary. Those who put up the largest donations EXPECT reciprocation for their donations. It is, pay, to play in politics more, now more than ever. If a citizen wants to push an agenda he/she better have donated generously or attained a renowned lobbyist. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Nov 30, 2009 5:44 PM:

" Nice Deb, I answered your question about unions but you side stepped my question about ACORN which by the way I never even called a "lobby" anywhere in my writing. Also, assuming your quote was right, the SC case was decided by the Supreme Court over a hundred years ago and has obviously never been overturned by any other Supreme Court decision since then which means both Conservative and Liberal courts have agreed with it enough to leave its ruling in place and likely used it to support more recent decisions in this critical area of freedoms. Also a litle shocker, but people actually have rights beyond the Constitution, you should only think of it as defining "minimum" rights. "

Deb wrote on Nov 30, 2009 6:30 PM:

" NHG - I agree - Unions have become big business - again - follow the money.

But - at least with unions, in most ways they are lobbying for the benefit of individual members in relation to all things benefiting/protecting employees. I personally believe SEIU becoming involved in and donating huge sums of money against Prop 8 was/is just as wrong. It had no bearing on their collective membership benefits/protections.

The Churches in many instances do lobby for the benefit of society - it's when they attempt to insert their positions upon society as a whole where I take issue. I don't believe a church should be involved in lawmaking. And, there are some awfully powerful churches out there.

But, I recall you and I both agreeing on your position of monetary donations for political purposes. "

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