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Still looking to grow: Master-planned community proposed in north Hanford

By Eiji Yamashita
eyamashita@HanfordSentinel.com

A slumping economy and housing market crash don't seem to stop Ennis Homes and Jim Clark.

Nearly a year after their grand plan was unveiled by the city, the two builders are officially seeking city approval to go forward with their joint venture, which would create a self-contained community where people can live, walk and shop in north Hanford.

Dubbed Villagio, the 326-acre proposed development proposes to bring a spectrum of homes, including a gated neighborhood, townhouse and apartments as well as a shopping center in the are spanning between 12th Avenue and the railroad tracks stretching from Fargo Avenue north to Flint Avenue.

The neighborhood blueprint for Villagio also includes a church, a park, walking and bike paths and a school.

"It would be along the line of what we call is smart growth principles," said Hanford City Planner Cathy Cain.

On Tuesday, the Hanford City Planning Commission will hold a public hearing on the environmental documents related to the proposed annexation and prezoning as well as a general plan amendment and the planned unit development for the project.

The Villagio plans call for a total of 1,428 housing units -- both rental and for sale -- and 12 acres of retail space.

If built, it would be one of the largest single mixed-use development in Hanford. But Villagio is not the first such project to be proposed in the city.

A Southern California developer is working on a 200-acre mixed housing project near the mall area north of Target. But the largest project by far is the $430-acre Live Oak community proposed for south Hanford by a Brentwood-based developer. Both projects still remain undeveloped.

Though similar, Villaio is the only project proposing to incorporate retail developments within the neighborhood.

The project, even if approved on Tuesday, will still have some hoops to jump through

Before the developers can start construction on the project, subdivision maps must be approved by the city. Subdivision map processes require public hearings.

Still, a question remains as to how quickly, or whether, the project might move forward, especially given the current economic conditions. The planned unit development permit would be good for two years. Once approved, the permit would be eligible for an extension, Cain said.

The planning commission meets every second and fourth Tuesday at 7 p.m. in the Council Chambers, Civic Auditorium, 400 N. Douty St., Hanford.

(The reporter can be reached at 583-2429.)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 22, 2008 11:55 AM:

" Question: With the dumping economy who will be able to afford these new homes and apartments in this uninclusive/exclusive area of town. They have finally succeeded if this is approved North Hanford will have finally suseeded from the rest of Hanford. "

Will wrote on Dec 22, 2008 1:15 PM:

" It is interesting that Hanford has created their own definition of "smart growth". Smart growth has traditionally been an urban planning and transportation theory that concentrates growth in the center of a city to avoid urban sprawl. "

uggums wrote on Dec 22, 2008 3:19 PM:

" Smart Growth begins at 8 dwelling units per acre, is characterized by pedestrian and bicycle interconnectivity, a grid street layout and a vertical mix of uses (typically residential or office over retail). The Villagio Specific Plan features none of these elements. Villagio is at most 6.9 gross residential units per acre, features cul de sacs in place of a grid street pattern and contains no vertical mixed use areas. I consider myself pro-growth but my inner wisdom tells me it is not smart to label a project as a smart growth project unless the project actually incorporates smart growth principles. Maybe this article should end with an RSVP for environmentalist groups... "

canative wrote on Dec 22, 2008 5:06 PM:

" Is this project good for the community or is it that the developers merely want to recoup the expense of the project so far? So why wouldn't they forge ahead?

Better to rebuild in areas of Hanford that are blighted than continue pouring concrete over farmland. Slow growth or no growth is not just for liberals.

Sounds a bit too greedy and shortsighted. But then again, if they fail, no problem----the taxpayers can bail them out! "

Americantaxpayer wrote on Dec 22, 2008 5:30 PM:

" It's so nice to know that North Hanford is expanding and building nice clean neighborhoods. What ever happened to the idea of cleaning up South Hanford? Once again our City Officials press for development in North Hanford while South Hanford deals with the gangs and over crowded housing where mutiple familys are living in one home. Where's are elected officials look out for our interest in the South? "

Will wrote on Dec 22, 2008 6:27 PM:

" It's not like this is going to be built tomorrow, but it would be nice to know what our city's definition of "smart growth" is exactly.

Our city planner says "it is along the line of what we call is smart growth principles." What does along the line mean, Hanford's definition is similar?

Since Hanford has a Main Street program, maybe we should use the National Trust's definition. If you go to the Trust's Main Street website, they have an overview of the smart growth movement, tools, legislation, and their application for traditional commercial districts. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 22, 2008 7:54 PM:

" Ugms: This is about as smart as it gets in Hanford. There are low to high density residential uses, multi-family, office, public and retail uses. The parks are interconnected with trails. It's too bad more large blocks in the city have not been master planned in this was rather than the hodge podge pattern we have. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 23, 2008 11:30 AM:

" I see I am not the only one who has a problem with Hanford's idea of a growth plan for the entire community.

Like that lie about $5 milliion dollars a mile in cost for infrastructure. No one has answered that question to this point. For $5 million dollars a mile you could incoroporate strip malls, businesses and residential development. Perhaps that is it, they want us to finance the Retail Market in their $25 million dollar plan for expansion in the south of Hanford?

Why not we are paying for everything else we aren't getting in Hanford. Through our property tax and sales taxes. Once again taxation without representation. Do we all remember what happened the last time that went down in history? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 23, 2008 2:59 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 22, 2008 9:54 PM:

Gee Carl, I remember the people in place like you who made the exact same comments about subdivisions in this town before. Remember Parkside Estates, Bird Land, and many more all state of the art newest of the new subdivisions that were developed and forgotten. They were gonna be the safest, most kid friendly subdivisions in town. They even started out that way for a while but look at them today. Now they sit deteriorating and have sunk in property value more than any other subdivision in town.
You all come here wanting all these bike trails and horse trails and want to utitlize valuable farm land on the north and northwest portion of town to build them on. How do we reutilize land elsewhere to bring back that valuable farmland
which the community could always count on for tax revenue or revenue from it's crops. Subdivisions have come and gone some named after their developers others with cutsie names but the proven environmentalists, care givers have been our farmers and dairymen who give something back to the earth. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 23, 2008 3:05 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 22, 2008 9:54 PM:

All the while property predestined for residential and prime for development and refurbishing sets idle with no attention paid to it. Then you wonder why I won't let this dead horse lay. It is because I do care about this city county and nation. We need our ag to stay ag and our residential to blossom where it is, not foresake farmland because someone came up with a deal a rancher couldn't refuse. When the families were forced out of farming and corporations took it over, it was predicted this is what would happen. Corporations only care about bottom lines not feeding the world. There have been times even in this community where people have bartered for their services in exchange for milk, beef, eggs, chickens when times were hard now we are driving all those comodities away and letting corporations take over who don't understand any currency but green backs. We are peddling our future in the name of progress. Whatever happened to developing existing properties. Look at the beautiful remodeled two story homes in this community. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 23, 2008 3:08 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 22, 2008 9:54 PM:

If you didn't like hodge podge why did you stake your claim here? I would say Visalia would better suit someone like you Carl. Do you plan on moving to this new community Carl, it certainly sounds like it?

" Ugms: This is about as smart as it gets in Hanford. There are low to high density residential uses, multi-family, office, public and retail uses. The parks are interconnected with trails. It's too bad more large blocks in the city have not been master planned in this was rather than the hodge podge pattern we have. " "

Joe Friday wrote on Dec 24, 2008 8:53 AM:

" The developers of this project should be congratulated on attempting a smart growth development. We have been stuck in a sprawl inducing 1970's development mindset for too long. This has been a problem in not just Hanford but the region as a whole.

I hope Hanford and it's leaders will become serious about changing the way we develop our city. The mixed use model of combined residential and retail makes for pedestrian friendly development. It is our best hope for relief from traffic snarls and better air quality.

Our city needs to revisit it's General Plan soon and developments like Villiagio, could serve as a start for how to build new subdivisions in the future. It is my hope that when the City of Hanford hires a new Planning Director (the position has been unfilled since Tom Haglund left for Gilroy), that they be forward thinking enough to embrace new types of development strategies.

While this development is not perfect, folks should understand just how far from the status quo it truly is and give credit where it is due. "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Dec 24, 2008 10:53 AM:

" Property OWNERSHIP, people. Only the OWNERS can remodel two-story homes, work on infill projects, or "clean up" the blighted southside. We can talk all day long about projects that would be better than Villagio, but the reason they aren't being done has nothing to do WITH Villagio. These are people willing to risk their assets in a way that's better than most of what we have throughout the rest of town. We should stop complaining and start encouraging. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 24, 2008 11:09 AM:

" Joe Friday: Agreed, it is a great project. It would be nice if the city would take the initiative and develop a specific plan for the last frontier, the east side, so that we have an intelligently designed large block of land. "

transplant wrote on Dec 24, 2008 12:16 PM:

" Fred, I really don't try to argue with you. I just want to set out the real facts. All of Hanford, including out to it's planning boundary, is on prime ag land. That includes the property in the south. The area for this proposed project has long been planned for residential development in the General Plan. There ARE proposed developments, already approved, in the south part of Hanford but because of the economy they are not being built right now. Doesn't mean it won't happen. And there's a very large project (almost 400 acres) that is in the planning process. It probably got delayed because of the economy. As the property in the north is exhausted, the south has become more popular. It WILL happen, Fred.

Also, don't tell me the city is responsible for those homes in Birdland and Parkview. Why didn't the owners take care of them? If they have no pride of ownership, how is the city responsible? The city didn't make those homes become run down. You can find very nice homes in the middle of a ghetto, when then people who live there care.
Merry Christmas, Fred. I mean that sincerely. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 24, 2008 1:56 PM:

" To: Joe Friday wrote on Dec 24, 2008 10:53 AM:

Joe are you an employee of Ennis Homes and Jim Clark, or just their spokesperson? This speach of yours sounds rehearsed well written and practiced just for such a media hype. For these developers to consider this move when the economy is tanking, old standards like Mervyn's are following off the radar is not only redundant it is down right irresponsible. We lost a major manufacturer in the Industrial Park businesses on Main Street are dropping like flies and these guys want to build, build, build for what purpose? Where are the home buyers gonna come from existing homes and subdivisions that will be left to deteriorate? Have these two developers made so much money in this area they can afford to go broke now? The building trades in every venue of the United States are at a standstill right now. There are more carpenters and plumbers out of work than down through history. Let's say this dynasty gets built who is holding the paper on it? What concessions are needed to build it in the first place? "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 26, 2008 10:30 AM:

" Fred: Just a note on timing. Just because the developers are processing a master plan for this project does not mean they will build any time soon. It's kind of an investment in the future. The economy and lending contraints will put a damper on that until at least 2010 or later. No bank would loan on Vilagio right now. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 26, 2008 11:00 AM:

" To: transplant wrote on Dec 24, 2008 2:16 PM:

My use of those areas was as an example of what state of the art was in their time frame and for no other reason. Many of the families in those areas do show pride of ownership and make their homes look as nice as any north or northwest of Hanford. In fact many have added amenities including pools since their purchase. My point is what is state of the art today could become a ghost town tomorrow. The project you describe would better be used by people in South East and East as there is no shopping and very little retal in those areas. While retail is abundant on 12th Avenue and Lacey. The need for the greed just doesn't make since with the location. You will be taking business away from the new multi-million dollar mall project just like that project took it away from the old mall, like that project put the first major hurt on downtown. It's a vicous chess game with our retail dollars in this town. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 26, 2008 11:06 AM:

" To: transplant wrote on Dec 24, 2008 2:16 PM:

If you would care to look at a project that shows sensible planning and consideration, look at the development and location of the new Hospital. That is the most thought out project I've seen in recent time in this community. It is central to the freeway and close to the middle of the entire community. There is a motel and another one on the drawing board for the convenience of out of town relatives of patients. It is in close proximity to shopping and dining it's a win win for the town as a whole.
Just like the plunge and the skatepark make sense for their unique location. That is why they should be left to prosper, if the city fathers feel the need for a new pool let them fund it with city funds not our childrens future recreational pleasure.
People are trying to turn this community into many tracks of home after home like I saw in Southern California and each one advertised it was state of the art and better. It's a marketing tool to sell homes. "

Joe Friday wrote on Dec 26, 2008 8:08 PM:

" Watchdog, i have no connection Villagio nor any of those involved with its' building. In fact I have in the past been an outspoken critic of certain development patterns in the City of Hanford.

Mixed use developments as proposed in Villagio are likely the future of new subdivisions and may well be the best strategy to revitalize our downtown. It is not a totally new plan, but similar to how cities were built in our nation prior to WW II. In hearkens back to a time when businesses serving local residents were common in residential neighborhoods.

Carl Spackler I am glad we have found common ground in our support for this. I love a good debate, but also believe in giving credit where it is due. I have no doubt about this project being good for the future of our city and will do what I can to see it succeeds. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 26, 2008 8:09 PM:

" Fred: Birdland was very progressive and ahead of it's time. The main problem with that project was the location. The location could not substain adequate HOA fees and so there went the common area maintenance and CC & R control. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 27, 2008 10:36 AM:

" As a public service to Fred, I gave up my time and body warmth and jumped on my bike for a tour of south Hanford. My intent was to check out deveopment and infrastructure and to verify if the city is spending tax dollars there. OK, here we go starting at 12th/H-A Road.

Recent sewer expansion in H-A road, west of 12th

Hmmm new gas station and car wash at thenortheas corner. New fire station coming at the southwest corner.

12th/Hume several two new subdivisions under construction.

H-A Road between 12th and 10th is one of the smoothest in Hanford with a fat bike lane. Nicer than anything in north Hanford.

Centennial Park- pretty new. MLK School- newer middle school.

Irwin north of H-A Road, new affordable housing project.

10th/H-A Road Soc-Com and new building for Kings Rehab.

Conclusion: There are things happening in south Hanford, Maybe not as much as the north but that is a function of market demand. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 27, 2008 11:07 AM:

" To: Joe Friday wrote on Dec 26, 2008 10:08 PM:

I am a little confused how does putting retail availability within a subdivision bring back downtown? That makes no sense at all, if anything it will take business away from downtown, unless you are suggesting the new retail will become the new downtown? If that's the case it is more evidence that the city is desperately trying to destroy old downtown as we know it. I guess that is o.k. with Carl Spackler as his business is one that could move readily I'm sure. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 27, 2008 11:12 AM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 26, 2008 10:09 PM:

" Fred: Birdland was very progressive and ahead of it's time. The main problem with that project was the location. The location could not substain adequate HOA fees and so there went the common area maintenance and CC & R control. "

I see once again had it been built in an affluent area like north or northwest of town it would have been successful. That because it was build south of 198 it failed because those people don't know how to support anything. That is funny do you know who the initial investors in Parkside and Bird Land were and still are Carl. Navy personnel from NAS Lemoore Carl, are you saying those patriotic souls are ghetto minded? Yeah as long as we are slamming people let's be sure and include those protecting us from terrorism today also. Let me pull you out of your business and away from your home for six months at a time and let's see how it looks after three or four deployments. All that proves is my comment about discrimination is true. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 27, 2008 11:19 AM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 26, 2008 10:09 PM:
What retail is going to buy into this little community closing out the possibility for sales to the entire community? Walgreens, Longs, any chain drug or convenience store. Not likely Walgreen just scrapped 500 new stores because of the economy. So who will fill in this reatil area Subway, Gas Station Mini Marts, like there aren't enough of those in town already? What unique business is going to fullfill a need that can't be had in any of the Mall area or downtown shoppping already available? Will you have your own auto and body shops, cheese plant, exactly what retail will fill this community? People are being foreclosed upon because of ideas from bankers, now people can sell their old homes move into these new one's pay a fee for all the emenities and end up losing their homes as the fees increase. Yeah this sounds like a great deal to me. Isn't that why you said Birdland failed and what a great idea it was, ideas fall down around our ears everyday. (Continued). "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 27, 2008 11:25 AM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 26, 2008 10:09 PM:
1428 units, are you here to say that the builders and owners since there will be rental property are going to discriminate? How will they guarantee everyone who moves there won't pile up cars, not cut the lawn, and live in blighted conditions. To factor in regulations to avoid all that is discrimination Carl. Will the builders and owners make the rent so extravagant that the poor can't afford to live there? Wow what a convenience that will be to the entire community. What concessions will the city have to make in order to get this white elephant built? We are on hard economic times and these builders want some major cost savings to build this and you know it. Is the infrastructure on this project going to exceed the 25 million it would take to go south of 198? Isn't it true you are taking more tax monies from the tax payers south and east of downtown to pay for this monstrosity. I believe this takes an additional 326 acres of farmland out of use as well does it not? "

HF wrote on Dec 27, 2008 1:40 PM:

" I like the idea of new apartments and a close knit area of town with trails and such.

I do not like that it will be gated and there are stores and a church in it. So you have to be wealthy to buy into this area, and you are only allowed in to shop and go to CHURCH if you have a key to the gate? That's stupid. Maybe you won't need a key to go shopping in the community, but will people be looked down upon because the shop keepers and other customers know they aren't part of the community, that Zeus forbid they come from the "SOUTH SIDE" of Hanford?!

It's another way for more people to feel hoity toity about living in North Hanford. Get rid of the gates and expand this plan to include a benefit for more of Hanford (trails, parks, a greenbelt would be amazing), and have a CHURCH build a church instead of a developer, and it might be a good plan. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 27, 2008 6:07 PM:

" To: kermit the frog wrote on Dec 27, 2008 2:19 PM
To: HF wrote on Dec 27, 2008 3:40 PM:

Thank you both for pointing out more reasons to not just rubber stamp this plan. I also even though I have a belief in God that church members should pay for the building of their own church's. Furthermore, why should the cost of a Church be levied on Antheist who will never benefit from it's building who move to this little community of yours, Carl. The whole gated thing is kind of a hoity toity kinship to more discrimination. When you lock a gate you are only locking honest people out not criminals. If they want in bad enough they will break the gate.
Once again the planning commision and the builder has failed to plan. When you fail to plan you plan to fail is what I've always been told. Once again 326 acres of breadbasket earth is being ravaged for the purpose of building new homes people in Hanford can't afford to buy. Yet, Carl and Transplant call this progress. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 27, 2008 8:07 PM:

" HF: I have seen no indication the whole project will be gated at the front. I would imagine there might be a few subdivisions within the project with gates but all the common area should be open as there are schools, parks and a church planned. BTW the church and school sites will be sold and not built by the developer. They are set aside for these uses up front. Think of the project as a large puzzle with a bunch of pieces that will be sold off to individual builders.

The retail will not be a shopping center. There is not enough land for that. It will likely be some small shops, restaurants, coffee, offices etc. There is a large shopping center site planned for the southeast corner of 12th and Fargo. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 27, 2008 8:18 PM:

" Fred: Fred as a matter of fact I can tell you who the initial investors and developers of Birdland were. They also wrote the CC &R's and set up the HOA that are not being followed.The navy buyers you refer to were not the investors but buyers of the homes. Yes, I do believe that if Birdland was in a more affluent area it would be in better shape. Low income people cannot afford $300 per month extra for HOA dues for maintenance of the common area and pool. I'm not making a dig at low income people, that is just common sense.

As to you comments about Villagio, what do you care what it costs? The developer pays that not the city or Fred.

As far as taking 326 acres of farmland out of production, I'm kind of the opinion there is already too much farmland and too much production. "

aces928 wrote on Dec 28, 2008 8:42 AM:

" Wait a minute. We now have an entirely prepared subdivision for over 50 homes across the street from Pioneer Elementary School on 14th Avenue. All the roads and infastructure is their along with three model homes. All former ag land sitting idle. Nobody lives there. It is going on three years now.

Who were the geniuses who approved that project? What reasons did they use then? Are they like the ones being used now? What promises were made to this community by the builder? PS We are in a near depression. "

couchlady wrote on Dec 29, 2008 1:28 PM:

" "Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 27, 2008 12:36 PM:

12th/Hume several two new subdivisions under construction.

Centennial Park- pretty new. MLK School- newer middle school."

Just to clarify for Mr. Spackler....the Sidonia subdivision (12/Hume) has all but been abandoned. The company no longer has a sales rep who sits at the subdivision. The sales office onsite has a sign that refers potential clients to Tulare.

Centennial Park is over 7 years old and in need of rehab. Some of the play equipment is either broken or damaged.

MLK is not a middle school, but a elementary school.

that being said....Try driving down Hume sometime. There are more potholes than road.

Yes, things have been happening in south Hanford, but more needs to be done to address infastructure issues and development of sustainable businesses. "

Will wrote on Dec 29, 2008 3:44 PM:

" Carl S and Joe F are agreeing on something? Looks like someone has changed their tune on development and is thinking for running for a public office again!

This project provides “a self-contained community where people can live, walk and shop in north Hanford....with 12 acres of retail space.”

Being 5 miles away from Hanford's city center, this project definitely does not contain a strategy for revitalizing our downtown.

Hanford currently has over 40 acres of vacant retail space as it is now, and about half of these vacancies are downtown.

This well may be a way for us to go with future developments, but right now, lets try a little infill development when it comes to smart growth strategies. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 29, 2008 5:02 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 27, 2008 10:18 PM:

Are you attempting to tell me that the HOA fees in Birdland were $300 per month, I was told by a resident there in 1967 they were more like $50 per month. So I don't see why they weren't affordable at the time and shouldn't have remained so overtime, sure there is increases in everything that a community that small, come on?

I didn't mean to imply the navy vets were the builders of course they were the owners on government secured va loans which are stronger than conventional loans Carl. They should have been money in the bank for the developers and builders. So I don't think loan default would have been the problem. Especially since in most navy towns the homes go from one Sailor to the next coming and going. Yes Hanford is considered a Navy Town just like Lemoore we have as many navy retired here as we do transplants like him and yourself.

I contend that Birdland didn't fail because of the tenants, I think it was too new to this area. "

transplant wrote on Dec 29, 2008 5:38 PM:

" Kermit, what do you mean? Are there Planning Commissioners who don't pay their rent and/or not maintaining their property? Please, inform us.

HF, there will only be one area that is gated. All the rest are open to anyone. It is not planned that the church be built by the developer.

Fred, when development like this goes in, impact fees are paid by the developer that are used to upgrade and maintain other infrastructure around town. That's why new development is good. Carl may have been off on some of his facts (MLK is an elementary school, for one) but he did make the effort to look around for ways the city is working in the southern part of town. When the economy turns around, there's going to be considerable development of all kinds in the south. It's up to developers to bring the businesses and homes and the developers pay for the infrastructure that benefits them. The city is then responsible to maintain it.

I'm hopeful that when the General Plan is updated there will be a specific plan for the east side. That has been discussed and I think it's a great idea. "

Oolon Colluphid wrote on Dec 29, 2008 7:26 PM:

" Here are some housing truths as I see them:
- Every community has an “other side of the freeway” area
- This is true because rich people flee poor people
- Hanford’s rich fled north and west
- They wanted better schools for their children
- They wanted nicer homes and private swimming pools
- They don’t want to live in east or south Hanford
- They will continue demanding better housing options
- They will love this new project

And a few general Hanford observations:
- Every community needs leadership
- The “good ole boy network” actually exists
- It supplies needed community guidance and direction

Regarding this blog:
- There will always be those “that do” and those “that complain”
- The most prolific bloggers are in the latter category

The next city council convenes the 1st and 3rd Tuesday of every month. They hold planning sessions at 4:00 p.m. and meetings at 7:30 p.m. For those of you who either oppose or support the direction of the city, and previously committed to getting involved, this is (yet) another opportunity. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 29, 2008 8:27 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Dec 29, 2008 7:38 PM:
I totally get how it is suppose to work, but the growth plan for the city provided by the planning commission and the City Council is the ultimate decision maker on what gets improved and what gets left alone. I assure you their is a deficit on affordable housing in south Hanford and what is there is overpriced for what a renter gets, doubt it do a survey for yourself and see. As for new homes yes there have been some failures out here in that regard. Subdivisions started by not completed, but why because the city offered absolutely no help, or credits to the builders to build in this are vs North or the Northwest?
That is what I am trying to explain to you since you are a transplant this is nothing new this has gone on for a long time and it just continues today and as long as no one stands up and says anything it will continue. I truly believe that the misapropriation of tax dollars by the city in the east and south warrant deeper investigation. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 29, 2008 8:38 PM:

" To: Oolon Colluphid wrote on Dec 29, 2008 9:26 PM:

Now let me get this right you agree with segregation after the Federal Government spent so much money desegregating the whole US of A?

I disagree every place doesn't have an other side of the freeway unless the white folk put it there. By the way I am white just in case you wonder.

So you admit the better schools are in the afluent neighborhoods, looks like we have to rethink that entire busing thing again and revisit it.

The White's will continue demanding better housing options.

White's will love this new project.

That was your first broadminded opinion of Hanfords housing situation. All of which is against the Fair Housing Acts placed by the Federal Agencies. But thank you for your candor and honesty, at least you don't deny it is directed by bigotry.

Voters this is this persons assessment of our voting in this election:

And a few general Hanford observations:
- Every community needs leadership
- The “good ole boy network” actually exists
- It supplies needed community guidance and direction "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 29, 2008 8:40 PM:

" To: Oolon Colluphid wrote on Dec 29, 2008 9:26 PM:

Regarding this blog:
- There will always be those “that do” and those “that complain”
- The most prolific bloggers are in the latter category

Well we will see when Mr. Chin has to spend $45k in the next City Council election if we put up or shut up. Spicer get your running shoes ready. "

Oolon Colluphid wrote on Dec 30, 2008 11:26 AM:

" Fred,

I wrote "Rich People", I didn't write "White People". I find it fascinating that you immediately made the substitution. In your world do all rich people have light colored skin? They certainly don’t in mine.

I don’t agree with segregation, I’m just reporting on a housing trend as it exists in our community. Complain all you want but those with money continue moving (and investing) further north.

Stop complaining about the good ole boy network and get involved. Attend a planning commission meeting or city council meeting. They need, and deserve, our feedback and help. "

hfdresident wrote on Dec 30, 2008 12:36 PM:

" Since when do you have to be rich to live in a "gated community"?? And who filled all of the other new homes that were built? You definetly don't see an empty home for every new one that has been occupied so obviously there isnt a problem with not only filling these homes, but filling them with residents moving from outside areas. I wish you people would stop putting down the growth in this town. SOME DAY Hanford has to grow, SOME DAY new business' and homes need to be built. If you don't like it, go move to Laton. You can complain about Laton all day every day if you wish but give Hanford some credit and quit being so negative. All you old timers need to see that it's time for change and growth within our community. "

hfdresident wrote on Dec 30, 2008 12:40 PM:

" I do need to add something, though. If this "gated neighborhood" is going to be anything like the biggest waste of space they're still working on on the west side of 12th between Grangeville & Fargo, FORGET IT!! We drove thru there when we were out "house searching" and I have never seen as horrible as that little gated community.. thing.. it was horrible!!!!! "

transplant wrote on Dec 30, 2008 1:26 PM:

" Fred, YOUR bigotry is showing. Oolon Colluphid said "rich people" and you changed it to "white people". Apparently you think only white people can be rich? I've got news for you: rich people come in all colors and ethnicities. Quit putting your thoughts and feelings onto others. You say you don't lie, and I'll accept that for now. But repeating something incorrectly sure borders on untruths.

The city doesn't offer help or credits to developers in the north, Fred. Growth there has occurred quicker than in the south because the north has been preferred-by people of all colors and ethnicities. Are you saying you want your tax dollars going to assist builders? If the city "helps" development in the south, that's what it would be. And if they offer it in the south, they would have to offer it for the north, which still wouldn't help, would it? Give it time. Building will come to the south part of town.

When did you return to Hanford, Fred? Maybe I've been here longer than THAT! Fact is, you don't know. Just because I wasn't born here doesn't mean I haven't been here for a long time. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 2:43 PM:

" To: Transplant, your own statement below when it is reversed on you shows your true colors. When the south of Hanford may be in receipt of special consideration you want to hop on the train. But since most development has happened in the north you don't even want a railroad car provided for the south. Speaking of showing your true colors. There will be building in the south when after all the rich people get theirs? Richest vs poorest is still segregation and discrimination based on bank account size Transplant. Oh and for your information I have lived here for forty eight years, have you?

"And if they offer it in the south, they would have to offer it for the north, which still wouldn't help, would it? Give it time. Building will come to the south part of town."

The above statement is the same thing I've said all along if the City Council grows the north and northwest they should grow the south and east as well? Do you see that demonstration their Mr. and Mrs. Blog Readers? The good ol' boys hard at work. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 2:50 PM:

" To: Transplant, "Growth there has occurred quicker than in the south because the north has been preferred-by people of all colors and ethnicities."

Well Gee, it is amazing a single rental is filled in South Hanford to hear your explanation for this discriminatory behavior. Furthermore, I grew up in Hanford in the 1950' and 1960's and very little has changed in the minds of the City Council and Planning Commission since that time.

You keep avoiding the meat of my argument is it you and Carl who spend those tax dollars at the Super~Walmart or people living in south Hanford? I'd bet when you and Carl shop you head north to Fresno or east to Visalia, and I wouldn't be wrong would I? Furthermore people in South/East Hanford have been paying those same property taxes much longer than those in the north and northwest and got spit in return for their contributions to the growth in your rich community. I saw the same mentality when all those homes behind the High School were first built. The prestigous community where they don't have to trip over people of lesser income. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 30, 2008 4:59 PM:

" hfdresident: I agree with you on the Centex gated project on 12th. I think they missed the market on that one with the high density lots. Funny, the same thing worked in Visalia but Hanford wasn't interested. I do think the gated PUD concept would have worked well, it's just the lots are too small. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 30, 2008 5:17 PM:

" Oolon Colluphid: The prolific blogger's ideal Hanford would be:

No new homes in the north for a decade or two. Subsidized low income apartments in the north are OK.

A $25 mil trunk line on the east side paid for by the city.

New homes only in south Hanford, big ones with gates. If you can't afford it, the city will subsidize it.

Big free pools the size of Clovis West HS dotting the landscape.

A grocery store bigger than north Hanford's center of commerce, Savemart.

Since not all schools are created equal, Pioneer School District will build achools on the south side. Of course their district will not have to wrap all of Hanford. North will have to pay the bonds.

Cows or cheese plants will be declared illegal.

;-) "

Tony wrote on Dec 30, 2008 5:30 PM:

" Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Something stinks here....and it's NOT the cheese factory(actually that still stinks too) this would be like opening up a new version of Mervyns in the mall. But since we live in a 'good ole boy' town I am sure for a few bucks...it will seem 'a good fit'.
Hilarious. Comical. Let's start building a Hummer factory while we are at it. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 8:20 PM:

" To: Carl Spackler and Transplant you two have garnered the dressing for this new community and the only thing it hasn't provided so far is a charm school for all the elite rich kids to attend. What you overlooked the primary needs of your own little rich kids. How will they ever grow up to be good bloggers if they aren't mannerized at a young age? Do you also suggest a different blood bank, hospital, junkfood diner and socialite ball room, for this wonderful fantasyland in the north?

It's nice that you think that the city won't have to make concessions or pay for anything to get this project off the ground. Will you eat crow when you discover later the infrastructure was provide with taxpayer money? That there are certain tax breaks for the developers that no other developers in the city receive? There is always a price tag for the city for these newest of new ideas Carl and Transplant, I don't know who you think you are fooling? What Carl did 12th Avenue fail because it was in a recessed low income area of Hanford? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 8:29 PM:

" To: Carl Spackler and Transplant how we wiggle when we become the wiggle worms:
Carl.Spackler wrote on Dec 30, 2008 7:17 PM:

" Oolon Colluphid: The prolific blogger's ideal Hanford would be:

No new homes in the north for a decade or two. Subsidized low income apartments in the north are OK.

Oh I get it, no new homes in the south for decades is alright, but just don't make the north and northwest suffer any lack of building and development is that about it boys?

They are developing a shopping center at 12th and Fargo is Lacey Blvd. now too far to drive with all the new development?

What about the shopping center at Hwy. 43 and 10th Avenue whatever happened to that concept? Since Best Buy is quitting business, what is left on that side of town for shoppers?

Have you heard the latest belly thumper, Carl calls SaveMart the center of commerce in the north. Super Wal~mart does more business in any given week than SaveMart does in its best two months of the year. Continued "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 8:39 PM:

" To: Carl Spackler and Transplant how we wiggle when we become the wiggle worms:
Continued Big John's Food King did more volume of groceries any given week than SaveMart has since it opened. Big John went neck and neck with SaveMart for many years until the owners became more interested in Food-4-Less Box Stores. SaveMart serves a niche but that's all it is a niche of the population in Hanford.
Carl, you really need to get out more on any given Wednesday you can follow the cherry pickers who start at Save-Mart, then go to Cost Less, then go to R&N Market and then Super~Walmart, then Target and home. They cherry pick the ad items and buy nothing else until they get to Wal~mart where they conclude the rest of their shopping needs. I don't know who told you SaveMart was the commerce center but evidently it was anyone who knows the routine of shoppers in this community. That has been the trek for ever in this town. Then there are those very few who may venture out to Smart & Final to cherry pick there ads. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 8:49 PM:

" To: Carl Spackler, I am all for growth but it needs to be planned and equitable growth, growth that comes in equal doses to all concerned who help pay for it. You want the southside to wait until you have this new development complete with trails, church, retail, apartments and housing and you can close and lock your gated community. My take on it, is if you want that you and you alone and those like you should pay for it, without benefit of city taxpayers revenue or give equal amounts to the east and west to do their own planned community. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:25 PM:

" We need to quit concentrating on what the few here in town want and start focusing on the needs of the entire city. When all the old infrastructure in the south & east begins collapsing down around our ears then will there be funds to repair or replace it? Do we not make improvements this ten years when people may not be here to benefit in the following ten years? All I'm asking for is fair and equitable dispensation of funding for growth and planning in this community. How many people are still paying to have septic tanks pumped while others are swimming in beautiful pools in the back of their houses? How many people in this community are paying expensive water and trash bills and still buying water to drink in bottles at the store? I believe it was transplant who said there are too many acres of farmland in this community. Well Thank God when people in southern california with dairies were ran out of Chino because the land was worth more than the milk, we had a place for them to come. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:28 PM:

" Carl Spackler and Transplant if you bother reading it is not only myself that has become upset over this blatant pilfering of taxpayer's money to accomplish the growth in the north and northwest. When this all stared there was a larger population in the south paying property tax than was living in north Hanford. So it is us who originally funded the taxpayer investment in all that growth, now it is time for you to pay us back. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 31, 2008 2:19 AM:

" To: Carl Spackler, this is how Carl and Transplant try and sell you a bill of goods. Now they said what you want the city to pay for the infrastructure in the south/east.

Look where the money for the infrastructure for the new COS Campus is coming from ladies and gentlemen: Measure C Construction Program Presentation
There will be no bond funds expended for awhile. Plans will be submitted in the fall to the Division of the
State Architect (DSA) for approval and won’t be returned to COS before spring 2008. Only the building
will be paid for from Measure C monies. All of the infrastructure and land will be paid from the General
Fund.

General Fund comprised of your tax payer dollars. But all this improvement in the north and all that infrastructure the developers can readily tie into is paid for by me and you.

What say you now gentlemen? Any comment? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 31, 2008 2:20 AM:

" To: Carl Spackler, this is how Carl and Transplant try and sell you a bill of goods. Now they said what you want the city to pay for the infrastructure in the south/east. So much for the developer paying for it Carl and Transplant.

Look where the money for the infrastructure for the new COS Campus is coming from ladies and gentlemen: Measure C Construction Program Presentation
There will be no bond funds expended for awhile. Plans will be submitted in the fall to the Division of the
State Architect (DSA) for approval and won’t be returned to COS before spring 2008. Only the building
will be paid for from Measure C monies. All of the infrastructure and land will be paid from the General
Fund.

General Fund comprised of your tax payer dollars. But all this improvement in the north and all that infrastructure the developers can readily tie into is paid for by me and you.

What say you now gentlemen? Any comment? "

transplant wrote on Dec 31, 2008 12:42 PM:

" Yes, Fred, again you are wrong. My tax dollars are spent in Hanford, as much as possible. I shop Wal-Mart, as well as many other stores in Hanford. I admit to going to Visalia for Costco, which we don't have here. You don't know where I live. You ASSUME I live in the north but I've never said.

I have NEVER said I don't want development in the south. I just don't think it's the city's job to tell property owners when they can develop their property. If you owned property in north Hanford, you'd be the first to complain if someone told you that it couldn't be developed until a certain percentage in the south was also developed. That could be considered a "taking" (not allowing you the use of your land).

YOU are avoiding answering when you returned to Hanford. I know you lived in So. Calif. for a time and I'm not sure about other places. So, Fred, when did you return and how long were you gone? Based on previous blogs you feel that, unless born and raised here, no one is entitled to an opinion. continued "

transplant wrote on Dec 31, 2008 12:51 PM:

" Fred (continued), If anyone ever disagrees with you, they immediately become an enemy and you attack THEM, not the opinions. But you show your bigotry when you write some of the things you do. I noticed you didn't address comment regarding how YOU changed "rich" to "white". That's probably because you don't admit when you're wrong.

The thread I was referring to was the other article, Fred. And if you notice, I haven't responded there, even to your inaccurate comments there. I haven't called you a liar, Fred, even though you come pretty close to the line. Afford me the same courtesy. If you find that I've posted something that is inaccurate, let me know and I'll admit it. But don't throw out your far-fetched "might-be's" as facts and expect me to accept them. I can admit to being wrong if I've made a mistake, but I don't lie. Your mis-statements would seem less like lies if you would admit when you're wrong (I'm not holding my breath).

I do not believe that there is systematic discrimination about development in south Hanford. Provide some facts of discrimination, not your opinions, if you want someone to believe it. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 31, 2008 3:30 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Dec 31, 2008 2:42 PM:

"And if they offer it in the south, they would have to offer it for the north, which still wouldn't help, would it? Give it time. Building will come to the south part of town."

You try and appease the people while still continuing to demand growth in the north and north west. When will there be growth in the south when hell freezes over or when you and Carl Spackler have seen ample growth in the north.

Far-fetched might be's, all one has to do is drive around and look at new construction in the north and northwest and new construction in the east and south. That Transplant is fact, it is not far-fetched at all for those of us who get out of our recliners.

I've responded to you that I've lived here for 48 years that is already having subtracted the time I lived elsewhere. You keep saying you know who I am but you know nothing about me clearly. When I have been wrong I've admitted it, if you haven't seen those blogs doesn't mean they didn't exist. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 31, 2008 3:37 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Dec 31, 2008 2:42 PM:

I don't personally attack you and I don't attack anyone's opinion until they blatantly tell half truths or play symantics like Carl Spackler to rearrange the facts on something. Carl, is well known on here for telling half the story and it is up to the readership to seek out the rest of it.

Such as he claims infrastructure is paid for by the developer, not so in the case of the schools all that is paid by taxpayers funds. Also, if the schools were not built with the ability to tack on to their infrastructure, would the developers build there?

There is 66% white in the city of Hanford what is the chance that there are more rich white people, Transplant? You take simple deduction and reason and try and put your spin on it as if it isn't a fact. I am sure with the success of the Tachi Casino that before long there will be many more rich indians than white people, is that a reasonable assessment? Does that make it a racist statement or logical fact? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 31, 2008 3:50 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Dec 31, 2008 2:42 PM:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't make the opinion correct. Those who weren't born and raised here lack a lot of the history of Hanford and are too lazy to learn it. So a lot of their compassion is lacking for the historic value of the city.
Carl and many others brag about their commitment to downtown out of one side of their mouth and then drive business and development away at the same time through the otherside of their mouth. You drive down seventh street and see building after building empty and not in use, yet want to establish an entire community filled with retail. When people supply all their needs including faith based in one gated community is that not segregation? Then you both are misled toward me being a bigot? I think that title is truly and fairly yours to share with your counterpart.
I speak of development in the south and you push the panic button and tell me to get facts, the facts are there for those of us with our eyes and ears open. "

Oolon Colluphid wrote on Dec 31, 2008 4:02 PM:

" Fred,
Instead of tilting at windmills I encourage you to get involved. That’s what I did.

You would likely call me one of the “good ole boys” because I’m involved in much of what happens in Hanford.

Was I elected to a position?
No.
Am I one of the old money rich?
No.
Do I have a financial interest in what gets built where?
No.
I got involved because I care about our community and want to see it prosper.

I’ve had great success, you can too. Attend a planning commission meeting or city council meeting. Apply for a commission or board seat. Become active in your political party of choice. Donate time to a nonprofit charitable cause. Just do something; the community needs more citizen involvement. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 1, 2009 1:08 PM:

" Fred: continued
You have a basic lack of understanding on how new development works. Let's take a subdivision for example. The developer pays development fees based on the number of lots for things like parks, schools, fire stations etc. All the streets, sewer, water lines, cable, telephone, sound walls and offsite stuck like street widenings in front of the development. So it is true developers don't pay the whole cost of schools, but they contribute by development fees/building permits. If there are water and sewer extensions needed and the city can't pay, the developer will front the cost and get reimbursed later by users joining on later.

I would guess developers build near schools not to "tack onto their infrastructure" but because they can be a real draw and a boost to prices if the school district is strong. An example of that in Hanford is Pioneer SD. For Visalia it is El Diamnate and for Fresno if is Clovis Unified. Values are higher in these district areas due to stronger demand. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 1, 2009 3:22 PM:

" To: Oolon Colluphid wrote on Dec 31, 2008 6:02 PM:
Amazing you've accomplished so much with your involvement and I haven't seen a single article in print of your involvement in anything with the Planning Commission or the City Council. Just some dribble about anti-Christ articles you've written if you truly are who you say you are. I invite anyone to google your name and see what your name stands for and the atheistic comments you avow. If you aren't this person why would you steal their name and be known in this manner. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 1, 2009 4:19 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 1, 2009 3:08 PM

Do you really think I am naive enough to think that a developer isn't smart enough to tack on any costs including permits and infrastructure to the price of the homes he is building and selling. So Carl once again the developer fronts the money until the houses are sold and he recoups it. Most of it being on paper to begin with I am sure. So you are absolutely wrong about the end result being that the developer pays for the infrastructure. Often times cities will share the cost or bear the full cost as in the building of the High School and COS College development here in town. You keep playing these games with symantics and half truths regarding anything to do with development, gee I wonder why? Could it be you and transplant have a vested interest in it? I have to wonder when you speak of free advertising in articles regarding custom homes. You still have not responded to what is fair and equitable to the entire community, not just a select area. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 1, 2009 4:25 PM:

" To: Tansplant, you want my involvement I think I will immediately begin a signature campaign against the building of this monstrosity at tax payer expense in the north. In fact perhaps we may petition for a complete building moritorium in the north and northwest until the south and east have had their fair share of development. You are absolutely correct there are more meetings scheduled to discuss this development and the City Council has not rubber stamped it yet. Anyone in their right mind, who witness an empire like Mervyn's and other strong institutions closing down should know the development you intend to build is absolutely ludicrous in this current economy. What we need is growth in the Industrial Park with thousands of jobs coming to this community. There is a plan to go green are we trying to encourage the green businesses to locate in our industrial park? No we haven't, we never even actively advertise our industrial park except in joint ventures with Visalia, Tulare and Lemoore. When in fact they are some of our largest competitors. Visalia's Industrial Park has grown and continued to grow since its inception. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 1, 2009 4:33 PM:

" To: Tansplant & Carl do you realize that in this city at any time since the economy dumped that there is 800 homes vacant? That figure was brought up at the time of the candidate meeting I am sure it has increased. No one is raising rents right now, for fear they won't be able to keep their tenants, it has officially been declared a buyer's market in real estate. Now you want to dump 1500 more homes into the community which will probably empty out another 1500 here in town. Boy how would you like to see that number go to 2300 homes vacant in the local downtown areas? You talk about a buyer's market, or a worse case scenario 1500 homes are built and only 2 are sold in this new community. Put your thinking caps on and realize growth is good, but it must be planned growth. Not a hair brain approach to oh wouldn't it be nice if we only had this 1500 home gated community. Times are tough and it is only gonna get tougher sports fans. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 1, 2009 4:38 PM:

" To: Tansplant & Carl you preach against low income homes being built in the south and east or I prefer the term more affordable living. But guess what many of us will be one paycheck away from living in one of those homes before this recession, depression, sucky economy is over and done. Some real estate speculators are estimating eight years of reduced market. There will be a need for this more affordable housing if you hope to keep the population at it's all time high. We are in a unique situation lots have notoriously been cheaper here than in Southern Cal, what are they gonna do to incorporate this new former middle class that gets dumped on? You will see a migration to communities like ours from all over the state. People bailing out of 500k homes and looking for something they can afford in communities like ours. That is where the growth potential is, it isn't in gated communities, it isn't in retail segregated from the rest of the community. Business downtown is suffering and it is available to all 52,000+ residents. Let's build more retail. "

Alihandero wrote on Jan 1, 2009 5:10 PM:

" Hey Watchdog,

I took your advice and googled our new poster here with the science fiction character moniker.

Found this:
"Oolon Colluphid"
Location: Winchester, Hampshire, England
Posts officially on the "Heathen Hangout.com"
Seems to be intelligent and an atheist.

He has such good online penmanship. That is a BIG plus in my book.

Oh well, at least he doesn't live in Switzerland, and Winchester, England has a great cathedral!

But I do wonder why he is posting here in Hanford and Kings County as if he is an actual resident. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 1, 2009 5:26 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 1, 2009 3:08 PM:

Another little tid-bit most of the football coaching staff came from Redwood High School. So I guess Redwood must of had a pretty good sports deparment as well. Money can buy anything. "

Oolon Colluphid wrote on Jan 2, 2009 12:03 AM:

" Fred,

Perhaps, because of your disability, you don’t read much. Let me elucidate (explain).

Oolon Colluphid is a character in the book “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” by Douglas Adams. His character is representative of all convoluted logic. I choose the blog name after reading many of your posts.

Your assumption that he is real is hysterical. All I can say is “So long, and thanks for all the fish”! "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 2, 2009 1:41 PM:

" Fred; There are not 800 vacant homes in Hanford. Do some research.

The 1500 homes in Villagio will not be dumped in Hanford at one time. That is a phased project that will likely take over 10 years to build out.

Next topic, construction costs. You are correct that the developer gets reimbursed by the home buyer for his expenditures in infrastructure. The developer pays for it, then the buyer in a sense reimburses him. So if you think about it, the home buyer is essentially paying for new roads, sewer, schools, fire stations and park.

Next topic, racism. There you go again twisting something I said and turning it into a forum on race. I said good schools (like El Diamante) increase property values. You turn it into a discussion on race. What's up with that Fred? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 2, 2009 5:59 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 2, 2009 3:41 PM:

Well first off those aren't my numbers those are John Murrisky's numbers and he promised they were researched and validated. I would think a caring candidate for office in this city might be a little more knowledgeable than you about such things. So for this topic I'll accept John's numbers with the provision they may have increased as times have gotten tougher.

Secondly of course there will be 1500 empty homes and apartments when Villagio is built. Do you honestly think in this depressed economy you are going to receive 1500 people of means to purchase and rent that space? No they will not, I've already commented at best we can count on a mass exodus from the north or south as people are laid off in the larger cities as they scramble for affordable housing. Their property values decreased right along with ours, they will sell and cash out, pay off the residual loans and move to more affordable housing.

Thirdly, since the most possible source of property owners to buy those 1500 houses and apartments are already living here. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 2, 2009 6:09 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 2, 2009 3:41 PM:

"Next topic, construction costs. You are correct that the developer gets reimbursed by the home buyer for his expenditures in infrastructure."

So if the above statement is true then why is it not cheaper to do the same thing in the south and east? If the home buyers pay the infrastructure cost?

"Next topic, racism."

Is it racism: because I point out that 66% of the local population is white and it stands to reason more white people would be rich?

Is it racism: because you and Transplant think your precious north and northwest areas should supersede any other development in this community.

Is it racism: to point out that Habitat for Humanity wouldn't build a home in your gated community. Your exclusive over priced housing and apartment track that the poor cannot afford, now that sir is racism. Those actions, this development is for no other reason than to put more distance and a gate between you Transplant and all the minorities in this town without means. That sir is racism, segregation and vioation of civil rights. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 2, 2009 6:19 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 2, 2009 3:41 PM:
(Continued) since Jesus walked among beggers and thieves will he be excluded from the gated community in north Hanford also?

Martin Luther King Jr. didn't invent racism, he just pointed it out and showed it for what it is a festering monster. Will a Church built to exclude all others in any community receive the Lord's Blessing? I don't hardly think so. Jesus our Lord said; "whereever three or more shall gather, I will listen". he didn't say where all the bigots gather in their gated community.

You both love controversial subjects buy you don't want to admit to your own weaknesses and prejudices. Your project sets back history fifty years and undoes everything the 50's and 60's did to join us and make us truly equal. All mean are created equal, not just those who can afford to live in a gated community in racial bliss.

When do we install the black and white drinking fountains/restrooms and start buying slaves again?
You can't see the racial forest for your own biased trees you planted in honor of being green. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 3, 2009 3:22 PM:

" To: .Oolon Colluphid wrote on Jan 2, 2009 2:03 AM:

That's two down approximately fifty more to go. "

Joe Friday wrote on Jan 3, 2009 3:48 PM:

" Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 27, 2008 1:07 PM:
" To: Joe Friday wrote on Dec 26, 2008 10:08 PM:

I am a little confused how does putting retail availability within a subdivision bring back downtown? That makes no sense at all,

Fred, the concept as utilized to revitalize older downtown areas is termed "new urbanisim".
This style of redevelopment (and new development) is marked by a higher density mix of commercial and residential development, often sharing the same building. By maximizing the efficient use of space and infrastructure, a more compact style of building means providing the same amount of residences and retail space with fewer acres of land.

Hanford's downtown would be well served by utilizing more of the upstairs of it's two story buildings for residential purposes. It would provide an on-site customer base for downtown businesses, making viable a larger variety of businesses in the area. In addition, new development of this type provides for the most efficient use of infrastructure such as power, sewer and water lines.

Please see the link below for additional information on this concept.
http://www.newurbanism.org/newurbanism/principles.html "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 4, 2009 10:11 AM:

" To: Joe Friday wrote on Jan 3, 2009 5:48 PM:
I understand your comments it has been the accepted practice in Fresno downtown for years now. But what does that have to do with the building of this 1500 home gated community that will contain its' own retail? "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 4, 2009 12:55 PM:

" Fred: There are not 800 vacant homes in Hanford. I provided figures when Mr. Murrisky stated that. Why don't you do some research on your own rather than repeat what someone else says.

There will not be 1500 vacant houses if Villagio gets built. It will be phased and take over 10 years to build out. Think of how subdivisions work - they phase the project in as demand dictates, Nobody in their right mind would build 1500 homes at once and no lender would allow it.

You said

That is how it would work in the south and east, but someone still has to front the development costs and that is typically the developer. You can't practically ask the home buyer to pre-pay for a house so the developer has money to put in infrastruture, correct?

Fred, if you equate where someone lives to being a racist, then you have some real issues to deal with. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 4, 2009 1:36 PM:

" Fred: let's examine your 800 vacant homes figure. According to the MLS, there were about 204 homes for sale in Hanford. Most of these are not vacant; they are just people selling their house. Just for fun, let's double that for FSBO's, builder inventory homes and lender owned properties to 400 properties. Of that 400 homes what % are vacant? I would say 25% is a generous figure. But let's say 50% just for fun. That is 200 vacant houses in the city.

If you want to change the argument and include apartments and home rentals that are between renters, then maybe 800 vacant 'dwelling units' is a valid number but I don't think there are 800 vacant single family residential homes in Hanford. "

Transplant wrote on Jan 4, 2009 7:53 PM:

" Fred, maybe the Sentinel will let this comment thru. Apparently you are able to call people racist, lazy, etc. and your comments are posted. But I said your are ignorant about how things work and mine don't get thru. Oh well...

Re-read the article and you'll see that it says a "gated neighborhood" not a gated community. Only a small portion of the project will be gated. The rest is open to anyone and anyone who can afford the home prices can buy in the gated area. And we don't yet know what those prices will be. I can wildly speculate like you do or I can wait until they are actually building, which is not about to happen for a while. At the peak of the building boom, Hanford was finalizing about 500 homes a year throughout the entire city. Now, it is just under 200 homes a year. Do the math. It will be years before the project is completely built-out.

What ethnicity and gender am I, Fred? Use the unique powers you have to see the future and tell me. 'Cause you don't know and I'm not telling. "

Oolon Colluphid wrote on Jan 4, 2009 10:38 PM:

" Fred,

You said: “But what does that have to do with the building of this 1500 home gated community that will contain its own retail?”

This has been explained previously, and you would be better informed had you attended the last Planning Commission meeting, but the gated portion of the project represents a very small percentage of the total homes. None of the parks, shops, churches, etc., will be located inside the (very small) gated portion.

Regarding the need for additional homes in Hanford, our population is slated to grow dramatically over the next 10 years. We currently lack the housing necessary to accommodate even modest expansion. This project will be built in phases as demand dictates. If the growth doesn’t happen the development won’t either. Lastly, this design has proven to be popular elsewhere (Fresno has several similar developments). I suspect once built it won’t remain empty very long.

Project review comes before the City Council next week. If you truly have a concern then join me in the audience. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 5, 2009 2:21 PM:

" To: Oolon Colluphid wrote on Jan 5, 2009 12:38 AM:

What you suggest for downtown isn't a new concept. Most downtown areas were developed with the business below and the residence above in the United States. I know just a man who started out in business that way. He owned a market and he and his family lived up stairs, just a small neighborhood market. Now he and his family own one of the largest stores in Porterville with many more throughout the valley he has part ownership in with family members he's helped realize their dream.
But that was the original concept, now people who have business downtown don't want to be there after dark any longer. They want to suck the economy dry but think they are too good for them and their families to live there too. A business today wants profits that make them rich enough to live in gated communities in the north. They will take our money during the day but they wouldn't be caught dead living by us, isn't that prejudice at it's best? You'd think it was pre civil war times. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 5, 2009 5:49 PM:

" Fred: There are several reasons what you don't see the vacant upper floors in downtown Hanford developed. First, many are out of town owners so it's hard to get anything organized. Second, many of them are in such poor condition that the retrofit costs would be so high that it would not pencil out. If it does not pencil out, it is hard to get a bank involved which means you would have to be financially independant to do the project. Next, society and market preferences have changed. Post WWII saw suburbia move into Calfornia. Downtown lofts, while trendy and interesting would be a hard sell in Hanford as buyers want a garage, yard and a white picket fence in front. Fresno is seeing quite a bit of loft development downtown, however they are quite a bit more urban that little old Hanford. Just my take. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 8, 2009 5:11 AM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 5, 2009 7:49 PM:

Let's face it Carl the only comprehensive plan you and Transplant have is an open door policy to back anything the City Council of Hanford wants to do with a blank stamp of approval. Any out of town builder who has a plan is formost in everyone's mind. Some developers are wising up and realizing that and backing out of deals with the city for fear they will be on losing end of the investments now. I tried to tell you both now is not the time to be going out on the limb on more housing in the north and northwest when that isn't where the need exists. The need for housing is in the south and east of Hanford in affordable housing development which can be purchased or rented. That is where the demand is that is the housing that should be being developed. When you and the City Council realize that the better off we will all be in this city. People aren't moving here for the nicest homes they are moving here because it is more affordable. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 8, 2009 3:43 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 5, 2009 7:49 PM:

Have you ever driven down haight street in San Francisco? This is where the garages are all on the ground floor and the apartments are on the second floor. Works for them, why wouldn't it work here? "

Transplant wrote on Jan 8, 2009 9:20 PM:

" Fred, you are sure good for a laugh. How many similarities are there between San Francisco and Hanford? Do we have as large a population to fit into a completely developed area? You really are a hoot!

And, if the "demand" for housing was in the south, that's where the developers would have been building. There are still plans for development in the south. When the economy turns around I expect even you will have to admit it (well, maybe not, you're pretty stubborn). I also wonder where you got the idea that the only affordable housing is in the southern part of town. You really should get out more. You also didn't (and won't) pay attention to the type of housing this development is proposing. It should be very affordable because of the smaller lot sizes. But don't look for it to be built real soon. There's still a lot of work for the developers to do and an economy to repair before construction could possibly begin. At least part of this development team is right here in Hanford. Does that make it better for you? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 8, 2009 9:25 PM:

" To: Carl Spackler who pays for the widening of 12th Avenue immediately to incorporate more traffic congestion? Secondly, if this program is set to now be extended over 15 years that is five years longer than you originally stated. At what point does it get extended to 20 or 25 years, Carl? This is a win win situation for the developer because now he can build or not build at his own discretion, no wonder you as a builder would be in favor of it. I have to admit Carl, Clark it's a nice play on words. The spackler was cute too everyone knows you have to spackle the walls in new development. Now that I better understand who I am dealing with the prejudice in building and other recreational interest is becoming much more clear to me. Would it be that this new development might contain a community swimming pool as well? You can fool some of the people some of the time but never all the people all the time. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 9, 2009 6:23 PM:

" To: Transplant wrote on Jan 8, 2009 11:20 PM:

" Fred, you are sure good for a laugh. How many similarities are there between San Francisco and Hanford? Do we have as large a population to fit into a completely developed area? You really are a hoot!

Just about as much the same similarity as Hanford now has to Fresno there Transplant. You keep using Fresno a population approaching over a million with Hanford barely passing the 50,000 mark, so tell me who is out of touch? I was simply stating what they have available in San Francisco could work to open up housing for downtown. We continually talk about downtown and building it up, but we build totally away from it by miles and miles and somehow expect that to be the answer. Do you think those people in the new homes are gonna drive by the mall and Super Wally World to come shop downtown Hanford. I hardly think so gentlemen. Now who is good for a laugh or two.
Plus you are talking of a shopping complex on the corner of 12th and Fargo. Why need downtown? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 9, 2009 6:28 PM:

" To: Transplant wrote on Jan 8, 2009 11:20 PM:

Why don't you include your own Doctors and Dental Offices and perhaps your own elegant Hospital as well in this mastermind for the master races? You keep saying it isn't segregation but you keep adding eminities that demonstrate something entirely different. I hear affordable apartments/housing but I don't see any concrete prices included to back it up. What is affordable to a developer or builder may not be the case for the consumer. Will they follow the same guidelines of $500 to $700 depending on the consumer meeting the 50% median income level? That would seem only fair to the community to me. But not within the guidelines of what your gated community peeps might be hoping for in neighbors. Then what, what if the lower class and income don't fit the picture of your higher class community? Do you do away with the lower income or higher income, come on commit now and tell me? Somehow I think the readership already knows who will become the sacrifical lambs as is always the case. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 9, 2009 6:34 PM:

" To: Transplant wrote on Jan 8, 2009 11:20 PM:

Earlier in the blog I made mention of the timeline you and Carl laid out and wondered how long the time would stay at ten years then 15 years then 20 years and so on. The very next article to come out in the Hanford Sentinel had already moved it to the twenty year mark Twenty years in which to develop or not develop this property what an open ended promise from our city to accept this non-building activity to go on and on for as long as the builder deem necessary. This would mean they could project to build in the future and if prices go flat or rent plummits they are not even commited to finish the project for twenty odd years and even possibly never depending on the market, not the developers commitment to build the community. There isn't a developer in the land that wouldn't like to have those sweet promises included in their new building programs. I invite you to look at the Auto Mall hassle, the mobile home tract on D Street in Lemoore. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 9, 2009 6:39 PM:

" To: Carl Spackler,

How many failures can we point to in this area alone such as the hassle with the Hanford Auto Mall, the block fence on D street in Lemoore which hides the proposed mobil home park. The subdivision south of town started and incomplete and no sales force on hand or continued building going on. How many of us know of subdivisions that were but aren't any more. All I am saying now is if you begin this without a due date to completion, it will never be finished. It will never contain all the developer claims it will and it will not be affordable upon completion. There are too many holes in the project for any one to even begin to dream it will come in under projected costs and available for lower income occupancy. Once it is built, how does the city control the rental charges, they can't. If no one else sees this for the monolith it is then no one has their eyes wide open on this one. It will be another dead dog the city will have to rescue. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 9, 2009 6:45 PM:

" Fred: Are you actually comparing the Haight district in SF to downtown Hanford? Interesting.

Carl Clark? You think I'm one of the Clark's? Interesting.

Blank stamp of approval for any project in Hanford, Freddy?? Seriously, do you actually read what I say? I have been very critical of development patterns in Hanford. Villagio is a breath of fresh air as far as your typical Hanford style development. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 9, 2009 10:36 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 9, 2009 8:45 PM:

Carl, I find it strange that you always answer my questions with more of your own and ignore the topics I have chosen to discuss. I thought only shrinks and really bad people used those tacticts? I know it use to be one Charles Manson used to avoid answering things he didn't want to discuss, like his guilt.

I point out various problems with the scenario described in this wonderful answer to all of Hanford's growth problems and development solutions and you did not respond to a single one.

If this continues to be one sided why waste my time with you when I have important things to say to the taxpayers in this community? The people being stuck with the brunt of the charges for all this infrastructure that may never be paid back and even if it is won't be for twenty odd years. What will the payback money be worth in twenty years compared to today's dollars?

I see scam written all over this proposition and all those in the know claim it to be a great deal. Continued "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 9, 2009 10:42 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 9, 2009 8:45 PM:
Continued
Carl, We are way to generous in this town. We are too quick to approve land development and not look at all sides of the project. If this is so wonderful put the usual time lines in place for infrastructure, police, fire and safety. Put some strict deadlines on development based on the need of the city not the whim of the developer. You speak as if this is an open ended kangaroo hopping about the acreage when it feels like it not when the city needs it too. Is this the developers show or is this a mutual agreement with the city and the developer. Everything seems to be written in the favor of the developer, I don't care if they are local or not. U-hauls come in and out of towns at night every night of the year and can disappear very easily. What does it hurt to put the primary guarantees into place. Are we going to get permits all at once as needed or what? What if the project is never completed?
Continued "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 9, 2009 10:49 PM:

" To: Carl.Spackler wrote on Jan 9, 2009 8:45 PM:
Continued
What assurances can be made it will be exactly in reality what it represents on paper? You are asking people to invest in a future that has no guaranteed completion date, with no guarantee of eminities and when they can be expected to utilize them. You speak of parks, paths and playgrounds as well as a school. With the state budget not even being passed for the year how can you guarantee funds in the next twenty years to build a brand new school and staff it from the ground up? Furthermore, what grade levels will the School contain? These are items developers don't make money off of and are most likely not to include. I am sure the developer is upcharging to include all this from the start, but won't deliver it all it isn't possible. You have mentioned association fees, for what for promises that someday may be built in twenty odd years when many people won't even be living there anymore? Not long ago I read schools were down on attendance and new one's were on hold. "

Oolon Colluphid wrote on Jan 10, 2009 8:19 PM:

" Fred,

You ask question after question, and make (incorrect) statement after statement, but never take the time to attend a single Planning Commission or City Council meeting to obtain the answers or to provide feedback.

Your recent posts contain more misstatements then I care to spend time correcting (as I have a real life). I really don’t know whether you write out of ignorance or because you enjoy the controversy of a soapbox life. I think you believe members of the City Council read these blogs. I interact with each of them regularly and can confirm your worst fear, they really don’t. If you want them to know how you feel you’ll have to take a drive north.

Until you fulfill your commitment, and begin attending meetings, you will not become better educated about the zoning, planning and building permit process, nor will anything change. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jan 10, 2009 10:10 PM:

" To: Carl Spackler
If schools are down on attendance, the state money disappears if the money is gone the budget is gone. We can't open schools on time as it is, what makes you feel, we can for this project.
I can see Pioneer School District laying claim to those students in your new project to increase their tax dollars from the state and filling their empty seats.
Furthermore, along with that many homes and apartments comes more police, fire and safety personnel needed to respond to emergency calls. How do you pay for that need when you aren't even committed to complete the project for twenty years? You can't guarantee with people moving back home that you won't have three families per home meaning you have the population but not the tax revenue to pay for emergency services? We are in hard times, we don't need this added liability of responsibility for our emergency services departments to deal with because I know where the funding will come from already. They will patrol the south and the east less! Some of us didn't fall off no turnip truck! "

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