Hmmm wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:13 PM:
" Thats one way to get a new Clubhouse. Glad no one was hurt. "
JAC wrote on Jul 8, 2008 5:49 PM:
" DOES THIS MEAN THAT MY DUES GO DOWN NOW? "
guest wrote on Jul 8, 2008 7:17 PM:
" I believe this was a building of great historic significance - Wasn't it the original Hanford High School?? I'm sure it was, and was moved to the country club from it's original site in Hanford. .. If that's the case, and it is determined to be arson related, serious charges should be filed ... Sounds like someone disagreed with the vote to keep and remodel the old club house instead of building a new one... "
Cindy Camara wrote on Jul 8, 2008 10:45 PM:
" I'm very sad to say that it was the original Hanford High School in use from about 1911 - 1925. It was originally located where Lacey Park is now and was built with a second story. The building served Hanford well and was once a beautiful piece of early Hanford architecture.
It's unfortunate that we've lost another irreplaceable part of our history. "
Something Fishy wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:45 PM:
" Maybe the high rollers will get their wish-a new clubhouse after all! Anybody want to buy a membership? "
boo hoo wrote on Jul 9, 2008 10:26 AM:
" boo hoo... "
Bob Roberts wrote on Jul 9, 2008 12:13 PM:
" I didn't know smoke smelled like insurance fraud... reminds me of Salmon's Furniture a few years ago... burns down, comes back bigger and better then ever! "
Another Avenal wrote on Jul 9, 2008 7:36 PM:
" Maybe a couple of golfers did this because they were bored. Its too bad there isnt more things for them to do in the summer time. Where were the parents while this was happening? Perhaps we can learn something from this and create more fun activities for these golfers to keep them out of trouble. Maybe we should make them clean up the mess to teach them a lesson. But seriously, lets have a BBQ fundraiser to build a new....oh, um..... nevermind. "
Mrs.D wrote on Jul 9, 2008 8:11 PM:
" Where will the Advantaged play now!? Dear Lord!!!! "
Play Nice wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:15 AM:
" This was a beautiful, historical building that was undergoing much needed renovation. It is such a shame it will now have to be replaced. But in defense of Kings Country Club, it is a beautiful place to play golf, and it is still playable. So no need to worry about where the 'Advantaged' will play now. Kings CC has many of the local high school golf team tournaments, sponsors Junior golf events, Golf Camps for kids during the summer. So please, it is a shame this happened but do we have to be so accusatory and judgemental. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:07 AM:
" Fire is devistating in any shape or form anyone who has ever spent time fighting fires ie; military training, civilian training knows you are not going to win all battles fought with fire. But I think it is an obimination that people can get on here and make fun of such a serious event. Why didn't you all just show up and make your smore's and tell lies to each other over the camp fire?
No before you go there, I haven't golfed a day in my life, but that doesn't mean I want it ruined for those who do like to golf. I am open minded enough to realize some people receive pleasure from it and if it is for the elite, the elite have paid for it, so what's your problem? If this was the WIC building we would be having a raise the barn party and be in a hurry to erect another one. "
Bob Roberts wrote on Jul 10, 2008 10:17 AM:
" Watchdog Fred,
I think the problem here with this fire is that there are those at the GC that want a new Club House, some that think it should only be remodeled, and those that don't want anything done at all. now that it is destroy; by fire, many will get what they want, all at the cost of insurance. The Club House will not be found at fault, just the way it is. "
PJ wrote on Jul 10, 2008 1:24 PM:
" 100 bucks on arson "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 10, 2008 6:47 PM:
" To Bob Roberts: you could be very well right, but I don't know that arson wll pass an insurance company investigation. Insurance companies don't like paying money out when they have to, if there is the least possible clue of arson in this they won't touch it. The Club House will have to be built and funded a different way. Forensics in the lab has come so far very little escapes scrutiny on crimes any longer. So I guess we will just have to wait and see. If it truly is the case, I'm glad I'm not a golfer. "
P.J. is RIght wrote on Jul 10, 2008 7:12 PM:
" Just heard it on KMJ at 5:10 p.m. Kings County Fire Investigators have ruled the fire arson! Good luck collecting your $100 bucks! "
todays news wrote on Jul 10, 2008 7:52 PM:
" Just watched an update on tv and fire and sheriff announced today it was arson and they have leads. I hope those responsible have to pay the price! Not only did they destroy a historic building but put firefighters lives at risk. "
Hmmm wrote on Jul 10, 2008 8:04 PM:
" Why don't you take a closer look at who was doing the re-model? In fact, why hasn't the media reported on who the contractor was on this job? Were they in over their head and had to do something to get out of a problem? Those in the know, know that there was no way to accomplish the re-model for that amount. Don't blame the members until you know all of the players involved. "
To Mrs. D wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:25 AM:
" If the members are soooo "advantaged" then they can afford to rebuid it..no problem. You think these members have the cash to afford to do so. I am sure more than a few and their families have worked very hard to become "advantaged". Stop being jealous and thank our great Lord that no one was injured and that it was an empty building and not an apartment building that took lives! "
Don Woolwine wrote on Jul 11, 2008 9:22 AM:
" Dear Hmmm
My name is Don Woolwine. I am the contractor.
Here are facts that people who ARE in the know, know.
Four bids were received. The three low bids were very close in price. The fourth was much higher in price.
I met with the sheriff investigater, insurance investigater and the fire marshall on Wednesday 9 July.
I was in Disneyland with my children on Monday, was made aware of the fire by the club house manager while the building was on fire and returned Tuesday.
Your accusation about being in overh my head could be correct if my bid price would have been much lower than the three other bids. People in the know would have recognized this and not used my bid.
If you wish to disucss your accusation, my phone number is 925-0931. "
Don Woolwine wrote on Jul 11, 2008 9:38 AM:
" Dear Hmmm,
I would also add that when I met with investigaters and the fire marshall. I was never asked any question that a suspect would be asked.
I await your phone call.
Sincerely,
Don Woolwine "
LMAO wrote on Jul 11, 2008 11:46 AM:
" Its all politicsa by a bunch of grown up spoiled brats "
Mr. Truth wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:00 PM:
" I see both sides here have reasons to suspect.
Mr Woolwine said it best. If there were questions they would have been asked. "
To Don wrote on Jul 11, 2008 1:06 PM:
" Dont let 'em get to you Don... it's just another local person who thinks the "know it all!" These blogs are fun, but it gives the rumor spreaders just another chance to flap their gums. The problem with this community is far too many people take 3rd and 4th hand information as though its gospel, and then they repeat it themselves. It appears to be arson, but pointing the finger now is uncalled for! "
Bob Roberts wrote on Jul 11, 2008 1:07 PM:
" Just because someone burns it down, don't necessarly mean that the Insurance Company won't pay out. The Owners of the Club House and/or golf course (not sure if their the same owners) would have to be found at fault.
Think of it this way, if it was your home and someone other then you the owner burned it down, and you had nothing to do with it, don't you think the IC would pay out...? I do. "
In the know wrote on Jul 11, 2008 1:26 PM:
" It wasn't the contractor that was in trouble. The country club was seriously over budget not to mention what they would have gained from the renovations would not justify the amount of money they were going to spend. There is a very good chance the insurance will not cover the damages. besides its going to cost five times that to build new. "
Curios Observer wrote on Jul 11, 2008 10:07 PM:
" Hey In the Know,
How could the country club be over seriously over budget when they did the job on a bid? If the expenses were running well past the amount of money quoted on the original bid, then that means that the contractor had no clue what he was doing when he submitted that bid, which had to be well below the cost of completing the job appropriately in the first place. If it was running over budget, that only shows the incompetence of those who submitted and those who accepted the bid. Besides, how do you know that it would cost 5 times the bid amount to rebuild? "
Facts wrote on Jul 13, 2008 12:11 PM:
" Two facts that probably have nothing to do with the arson, but are interesting none the less:
The remodel project was illegally designed by an individual who passes himself off as an engineer, but is not so licensed.
Mr. Woolwine was not the low bidder. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 13, 2008 7:47 PM:
" To Cindy Camara, well in that case it is probably just as well the City Council would have claimed custody of it, had it torn down and a cheese plant built in it's place. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 13, 2008 7:50 PM:
" To Bob Roberts, is this Chevrolet Bob Roberts I am talking to" If so Bob, do us all a favor and run for City Council again, this place is in a mess, it needs someone with your business background and knowledge and appreciation of history to take charge and put it back on the right track. I would like nothing more than to see you and Simon Lakritz take over these soon to be vacant seats. You both have the knowledge of leadership and the juevos to stand up for what's right in this city. "
Know yor geography wrote on Jul 13, 2008 9:48 PM:
" Watchdog Fred...
F.Y.I.,,Kings Country Club is not in the Hanford City Limits!!! It's on the outskirts of Laton in Kings County.. "
WTFGAS wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:00 AM:
" To Facts,
Why don't you get your FACTS right. The low bidder was awarded the bid You all need to grow up and shut up "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:16 AM:
" Hey watchdog....I mean Andy....my bad. The retired owner of Robert's Chevrolet was Robert "Bob" Hill, not Bob Roberts. But you wouldn't know that because you only buy foriegn. "
What? wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:38 PM:
" Illeagally desinged? What does that mean exactly? "
Facts wrote on Jul 14, 2008 1:16 PM:
" While Mr. Woolwine may have been given the opportunity to adjust his price to become the "low bidder", his original price was not the lowest when sealed bids were opened. "
Facts wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:34 PM:
" State laws require commercial plans to be prepared by either a licensed engineer or licensed architect. The individual who prepared the drawings for this remodel is neither. "
Dont Judge wrote on Jul 14, 2008 5:14 PM:
" Get a life you sorry introverted "Bloggers". It was a fire and fire burns wood! Now let the fire investigators figure it out. Whoever started it will probably burn in Hell anyway!!! And we will still be hittin that lil white ball!!!! "
To Facts wrote on Jul 14, 2008 6:57 PM:
" How could the club give anyone of the contractors a "second look"? I though you said the bids were sealed bids. Doesn't that mean you only get one shot at being the best bid? Secondly, how could they ultimately give the bid to a contractor who isn't even properly licensed to do this type of work? This seems like a huge oversight on the part of the club. Thirdly, how does the club explain its actions to the members regarding the lackadaisical way they used the members money on this project? In cases like these, you get what you pay for. Sometimes its better to invest a little extra money and have it done right the first time. "
Don Woolwine wrote on Jul 14, 2008 9:30 PM:
" To Facts
Please go to www.cslb.ca.gov. Proceed to check a contractors liscense. Type in 645426
I will appreciate your due diligence.
Upon completing your check to see if this contractor is licensed to do the work, Return to this site to state you have made a mistake. I encourage you to use your real name in your repsonse as it would indicate you are a person of good character.
Now if I have misunderstand your use of contractor instead of engineer then I apologize to you.
Sincerely
Don Woolwine "
Facts wrote on Jul 14, 2008 11:10 PM:
" Whoever wrote the "To Facts" post is mistaken. The person who prepared the drawings is not properly licensed. I never stated that Mr. Woolwine was not properly licensed, as such is not the case.
As for sealed bids: a non-public entity has the flexibility to manipulate the bidding process. Perhaps not ethical, but not illegal. "
The Flash wrote on Jul 15, 2008 12:24 AM:
" Just a rumor, but I heard Bob Norman was absolutely livid when he heard that Woolwine was not the original winner of the rebuild project. He was so mad, he left the meeting in anger and later had a private meeting with other board members Ron Tabasco and Norm Macedo. After this meeting, Don Woolwine was then awarded the contract. I am saying this is just a rumor, but if it were true, it would make sense that this political favor from Bob Norman to Don Woolwine was promised by the board if Bob Norman voted and aligned himself with the manipulative group of directors voted in by the the club in the last election. How easy it is to fool the masses for such an experienced politician as Ron Probasco. Way to go Ron!!!
It's a lesson in Karma for Norm Macedo (board member in favor of remodel and follower of Probasco)as he smerked as the destruction of the remodel began last month, and said, "its too late now, we've already started the remodel. Does this fire mean he has to take his smerking all-smiles comment back and eat a few words??? "
Why wrote on Jul 15, 2008 1:09 AM:
" Why do all these people speculate that the fire was started by "a member", "the contractor" etc.?
Why are these people SURE that the "contractor" was not licensed to do the job. Or that the "engineer" was NOT an engineer?? Why are they saying that the bids were "peeked" at? HOW DO THESE SPECULATORS KNOW EVERYTHING? Little secret... they don't. Just like the government said last week they are not going to put up with the "speculators" concerning the gas crisis. GET A LIFE!! "
To Mr Woolwine wrote on Jul 15, 2008 8:07 AM:
" Please read the posts on here carefully before responding. At no time was there a question as to whether or not you have a contractors license. The question asked was if you are legally able to provide architectual drawings for a job you are doing? Seeing as how you didn't list your qualifications as an engineer or an architect, it would seem clear that you are in fact NOT qualified for this job. "
LMAO wrote on Jul 15, 2008 10:26 AM:
" This is to the last few comments. If you knew anything about this you would know there is a lot of truth in most of these blogs. I for one can almost guess who each of them are posted by. Then someone like you comes along and just confuses the whole situation. Don't get me wrong it does add to the comedy but it shows just how little you know about this whole fiasco.
To Facts,
Read the comment posted by The Flash. That might clerify a few things for you. Besides shouldn't you be relieved things worked out the way they did in light of the events of last week? "
Don Woolwine wrote on Jul 15, 2008 10:46 AM:
" To all,
Below clarifies the factual issues.
The contractor is licensed.
The engineer may not be a licensed engineer. The engineer is the person that drew the plans. The contractor did not draw the plans
Section 106.3.2 of the 2001 California Building Code indicates that the Building Official MAY require the computations, and specification to be prepared and designed by an engineer or architect licensed by the State to practice such.
Notice MAY is in upper case. It is common practice for Kings County and the City of Hanford to allow "draftsman (or perhaps engineers who are not engineers) to draw plans as long as a licensed engineer reviews the calculations and places his stamp and wet signature on the plans submitted to the building dept.
A demolition permit was issued for the demolition of the country club. permit # 0805-055 "
Facts wrote on Jul 15, 2008 10:58 AM:
" Whoever wrote the "To Mr. Woolwine" post is also mistaken. Mr. Woolwine was not the person who prepared the drawings for this project. He was the contractor, and, as far as I know, never presented himself as anything but a contractor.
I was just trying to add what I thoght were two interesting twists to this story, nothing more. It has been educational to see how things get distorted and inflated so quickly on forums like this. "
Arson wrote on Jul 15, 2008 11:10 AM:
" I would like to inquire what happens at the Club at night? How many times have items been stolen, ATV's run all over the very hard maintained grass, break ins, etc. To blame someone from the Club is stupid. Wait for arrests in the case, I bet it's some punk kids who get jollies off of destroying other people's property. They do it to schools, churches, and just about anywhere, not just privileged places.
Armchair bloggers, that's what we are. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 15, 2008 12:12 PM:
" Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:16 AM:
" Hey watchdog....I mean Andy....my bad. The retired owner of Robert's Chevrolet was Robert "Bob" Hill, not Bob Roberts. But you wouldn't know that because you only buy foriegn. "
Andy, where did you get Andy from? Furthermore, you need to learn how to post and not use my moniker when you do it, unless you put a To in front of it, please, show some respect and courtesy. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 15, 2008 12:18 PM:
" Know yor geography wrote on Jul 13, 2008 9:48 PM:
" Watchdog Fred...
F.Y.I.,,Kings Country Club is not in the Hanford City Limits!!! It's on the outskirts of Laton in Kings County.. "
First of all, I know where it is my best friends dad was the care taker their for years. Furthermore, you have no idea how far the long arm of Bob Dowd and the City of Hanford Council can reach evidently.
Laton, small township to the north west, formerly had a Constable, small population, Alan Autry gave a speech there during Memorial Weekend. A famous baseball player by the name of Tom Coplin went to High School there, played in the minor leagues went on to become a Sheriff's Officer. The town hasn't changed in 100 years, yeah I know where that is, drove by it everyday on my way to Hardwick, know where that is? "
to watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 15, 2008 3:18 PM:
" You comment on almost EVERY article. After your last blog on here, with your somewhat "walk down memory lane to Hardwick and back" it sounds like your just a nosy old man who is trying
to prove that you know more than every other citizen of this county. There are senior centers for people like you in almost every city that would welcome you with open arms and keep you busy!
OH, thats right..I'm sure you know the times and locations of all of the centers! "
Know your geography wrote on Jul 15, 2008 3:30 PM:
" To Watchdog Fred.
Hardwick is in Kings County.....
Laton is in Fresno County...
Alan Autry..realname Carlos Brown..graduated from Riverdale High in the early 70's
Now get off the computer or you'll be late for Bingo at the Senior Center! "
Think before you type speak wrote on Jul 15, 2008 6:52 PM:
" It's a shame that people are so illogical with the rumor mill and slander that is used on these comment sections. The nonsense that comes from people is unreal. After wading through all of the pointless content I pulled out only a few lines of logical points:
1) Mr. Woolwine is logical and professional in his comments. I applaude the very simple approach in defense of the ridiculous allegations. Thank-you for the hint of sanity.
2) The opinions are none-the-less nothing more than that... "opinions". You're entitled to your wrong opinion just as well as the next person. Please, keep it logical!
For a bunch of grown adults that you would assume could have a civilized and educated conversation, this just gets completely out of line. What kind of example does this lead for our younger generations? "
DaTruth wrote on Jul 15, 2008 7:35 PM:
" For all you rumor spreaders... Here are a few facts: As it's been obviously stated, the KCC is closer to Laton than Hanford. Laton has had a rash of arson fires during the last 4 to 6 weeks, so it would only make sense the same arsonist may have crossed the river to the KCC. Its very unlikely a CC member started this fire. However, it is ironic since most of Old Laton and Kingston has been burned down. Laton use to be the only place to cross the Kings River, and was bigger than Fresno at the time, yet most of it was burned by Joaquin Murietta. About 20 years ago a very old historical landmark and former land office was burned down on main street in Laton, so it seem the fire curse has struck the town on the Kings River again.
Lastly, Watchdog Fred never stated Carlos Brown was a Laton Alum, only that Bubba gave a speech there this past Memorial Day, which is correct! "
LMAO wrote on Jul 15, 2008 8:49 PM:
" I didn't realize that the senior center even had free online services! Watchdog? I haven't even heard you bark, maybe you need a new handle?
What happened to Facts? Got any more? It truly was a bad thing that happened out there for a lot of people but it makes me laugh the way people start slingin mud. This is not an election its not even a trial ;YET. I do like reading postsa by people who know what they are talking about.
To Don,
Thank you for standing up to these idiots and I commend your backbone. I don't think any of them realize the position you are in at this moment. God Bless and I hope this works out for you.
To everyone else,
Sorry that I think this is comical, but it is. Almost any one of the members out there could build the new clubhouse out of there own pocket but they are so tight that someone burned it down over what? If you believe it was vandels then you"re even more out of your tree! "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 15, 2008 9:48 PM:
" Know your geography wrote on Jul 15, 2008 3:30 PM:
" To Watchdog Fred.
Hardwick is in Kings County.....
Laton is in Fresno County...
Alan Autry..realname Carlos Brown..graduated from Riverdale High in the early 70's
Now get off the computer or you'll be late for Bingo at the Senior Center! "
As more and more baby boomers retire, I want you to remember these remarks and think back well I guess they carried the load along time. What is gonna fall on all your shoulders when there are more on Social Security than off of it for the first time in this countries history is gonna be unbearable. So you remember your smart butt remarks and thank your lucky stars we worked as hard and as long as we did to build up the fund in the first place. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 15, 2008 10:00 PM:
" To Don Woolwine, I didn't make the accusations, but I did look up your #. Everything looks on the up and up to me, you are deffinately a licensed contractor with the state of California and you even carry Workmen's Compensation Insurance. I salute you many are overlooking that little incidental these days. "
Mr. Truth wrote on Jul 16, 2008 2:43 AM:
" Rumors. "
Mr. Truth wrote on Jul 16, 2008 2:47 AM:
" Rumors. I heard a rumor that a local gas station owner was overheard saying that ....'the only way to get a new one is to get rid of the old one.' .....whether he was talking about a clubhouse......a wife....a car....or a new Cadillac is completely unknown.
I hope this conversation does'nt get 'Escalade' ed.
So many gas stations.......so few Escalades.... "
To LMAO wrote on Jul 16, 2008 2:17 PM:
" Your the one who's fallen of their rocker... especially if you think all or even most of the members at the Country Club could pay for a new club house out of their own pocket. A vast number of the KCC members are hard working people, who work for wages or are on a fixed income. It costs far less to be a CC member than it does to own and use a jacked up 4x4, numerous quads and a 27' foot toy hauler, which it seems half the county's populous has. Many of the members earn far less than six figures a year, so dont assume its the lifestyle of the rich and famous, just because that's their recreation of choice. The sad thing is, this fire will probably force many of them to sale their membership due to an increase in fees. Far too many people speak of things they nothing about! "
LMAO wrote on Jul 17, 2008 4:43 PM:
" My appologies to anyone I may have offended. "
Bob wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:32 PM:
" FYI
There was another arson fire last night in Laton, dwelling fire along the Kings River. "
To Bob wrote on Jul 20, 2008 11:21 PM:
" The other fire on the Kings River... does red herring sound about right? "
Skip wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:15 PM:
" If the two men arrested were not club members, I bet there's going to be a lot of apologies issued on this board. "
Bob wrote on Jul 22, 2008 9:19 PM:
" They are not (as of yet) connecting them to the country club fire. Kings County arrested them but them transfered them to FC Jail. I have a feeling that the authorities threatened to charge them with the clubhouse fire also, to get them to sing on the other fires. just speculation though. "
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