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Gay marriage foes vow fight

SAN FRANCISCO -- Even as same-sex couples across California begin making plans to tie the knot, opponents are redoubling their efforts to make sure wedding bells never again ring for gay couples in the nation's most populous state.

A conservative group said it would ask California's Supreme Court to postpone putting its Thursday decision legalizing gay marriage into effect until after the fall election. That's when voters will likely have a chance to weigh in on a proposed amendment to California's constitution that would bar same-sex couples from getting married.

If the court does not put its ruling on hold, gay marriages could begin in California in as little as 30 days, the time it typically takes for the justices' opinions to become final.

The Republican-dominated court's decision, which cited a 1948 California Supreme Court decision that overturned a ban on interracial marriages, swept away decades of tradition and said there was no legally justifiable reason why the state should withhold the institution of marriage because of a couple's sexual orientation.

The 4-3 opinion written by Chief Justice Ronald George said domestic partnerships that provide many of the rights and benefits of matrimony are not enough.

"In contrast to earlier times, our state now recognizes that an individual's capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend upon the individual's sexual orientation," George wrote for the majority in ringing language that delighted gay rights activists.

Gay marriage opponents, meanwhile, derided the ruling as an example of judicial overreaching in which the opinions of a few justices trumped the will of Californians.

"The remedy is a constitutional amendment," said Glen Lavy, senior counsel for the Alliance Defense Fund, which is pushing for the stay.

The last time the state's voters were asked to express their views on same-sex marriage at the ballot box was in 2000, the year after the Legislature enacted the first of a series of laws awarding spousal rights to domestic partners.

Proposition 22, which strengthened the state's 1978 one-man, one-woman marriage law with the words "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California," passed with 61 percent of the vote.

The Supreme Court's ruling Thursday struck down both statutes.

Still, backers of a proposed November ballot measure that would allow Californians to vote on a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage said the court's decision would ultimately help their cause.

"(The ruling) is not the way a democracy is supposed to handle these sorts of heartfelt, divisive issues," said Brian Brown of the National Organization for Marriage, one of the groups helping to underwrite the gay marriage ban campaign. "I do think it will activate and energize Californians. I'm more confident than ever that we will be able to pass this amendment come November."

Twenty-six states have approved constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage.

In the past few years, courts in New York, Maryland and Washington state have refused to allow gay marriage, and New Jersey's highest court gave the state lawmakers the option of establishing civil unions as an alternative.

Massachusetts is the only other state to legalize gay marriage, something it did in 2004. More than 9,500 same-sex couples in that state have wed. The California ruling is considered monumental because of the state's population -- 38 million out of a U.S. population of 302 million -- and its historical role as the vanguard of many social and cultural changes that have swept the country since World War II.

California has an estimated 108,734 same-sex households, according to 2006 census figures.

"It's about human dignity. It's about human rights. It's about time in California," San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom told a roaring crowd at City Hall after the ruling was issued. "As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation. It's inevitable. This door's wide open now. It's going to happen, whether you like it or not."

The case was set in motion in 2004 when Newsom threw open City Hall to gay couples to get married in a calculated challenge to California law. Four thousand wed before the Supreme Court put a halt to the practice after a month.

Two dozen gay couples then sued, along with the city and gay rights organizations.

Gareth Lacy, a spokesman for Attorney General Jerry Brown, whose office argued to uphold the ban, said Brown would "work with the governor and other state agencies to implement the ruling."

The justices said they would direct state officials "to take all actions necessary to effectuate our ruling," including requiring county marriage clerks to carry out their duties "in a manner consistent with the decision of this court."

(May 16, 2008)

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Mrs.D wrote on May 16, 2008 3:34 PM:

" C'mon! Traditional marriage and same-sex marriage are civil liberties. Every tax-paying American living in this State is entitle to their happieness. It's our choice whom we marry and when. It's freedom. Isn't that what we're fighting for in Iraq?! "

Does Anybody Read The Bible Anymore wrote on May 16, 2008 3:46 PM:

" What is the world comming to when you allow the gays to get married?..I mean there are people in this world that hate to see a black and white people get married to each other, but its ok for the gays to do it?

Its wrong and it Disgusting ! I am Considering moving out of California to a state that has more morals! "

ALEJANDRO wrote on May 16, 2008 4:59 PM:

" Is this even a word: effectuate?

As in ""to take all actions necessary to effectuate our ruling,"

Yes, I checked: it is a word.

Perhaps the events of 2012 are starting early?

"

Mrs.D wrote on May 16, 2008 5:41 PM:

" RE:Does Anybody Read The Bible Anymore, try El Dorado, Texas. They have LOADS of morals there. "

Monique wrote on May 16, 2008 8:56 PM:

" Well all I have to say is yeah please read the Bible it tells you there that same-sex marriage is
wrong so all I have to say to this is all be praying
for you.! "

Thier life not mines wrote on May 16, 2008 9:21 PM:

" I think gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry. Who are we to tell people who they can and cannot marry. I wouldn't want anybody telling me not to marry my husband becasue he's black. Or better yet, who are we to tell people how they should be living. Some people don't even believe in the bible! So what, you believe in what the bible says. That's you! You probably don't believe in a man having may wives, or someone living 800 years! That's because the bible is so double standard. I say let them get married. They live on this earth, pay thier bills, and pay their taxes. I mean look, just because you don't like tobacco doesn't mean your going to tell people not to smoke cigarettes! No one tells you what to do in your home, so well tell others? "

To Bible Thumper wrote on May 16, 2008 10:03 PM:

" If you want to live by the Bible (which is full of inconsistencies, antiquities, and redundancies), go ahead, live your own life, but keep it to yourself because not everyone feels as you do. Got news for you: people who are attracted to the same sex are regular people just like you think you are. "

no way wrote on May 17, 2008 12:21 AM:

" Anyone who is attracted to the same sex is not a regular person...just think about it. "

The Phophet wrote on May 17, 2008 12:59 AM:

" Come on November! Lets get that measure on the ballot and get a constitutional amendment to keep four liberal judges from over turing the will of the people. They all ready have all the rights so leave marriage alone. "

Question wrote on May 17, 2008 7:19 AM:

" So how do you decide which gay guy where's the gown? "

Mrs.D wrote on May 17, 2008 2:13 PM:

" Folks, I'm really loving this! So many wheels are spinning that the Conservatives in the GOP are out of control. I hope you who are opposed to gay marriages in California keep your promises and move out of the state for good; we are moving forward so we can't afford all the dead weight. It's the 21st Century, people! Act like it!!! "

Mr. Truth wrote on May 17, 2008 4:33 PM:

" To Mrs D
"Moving FORWARD?" It's you bleeding heart liberals who have filled our prisons and have given prisoners more rights than ever.
Now you want to fill our churches with a bunch of Gay marriages? Wow. Continue your drivel, please, it's very amusing. "

Watchdog wrote on May 17, 2008 4:41 PM:

" No Mrs. D we are fighting for a deomcratic society in Iraq while the California State Supreme Court takes away those rights from the voters of California. Their ruling is a precident we will regret down through time, when the 61 percent majority of California Voters was set aside by four men who don't care what the voters were thinking when Proposition 22 was passed. If the Proposition was illegal and it infringed on people's rights that vote never should have been taken nor allowed to be on the ballot. But because the Gay community and it's lobbyist machine couldn't accept it, it was set aside and overturned by idiots who were appointed by other idiots. Now you will see the conservative lobbyist machine truly go into action and all this will be reversed once again and this time for a final time. When it is reversed this time significant others may lose the rights we already established for them tyring to satisfy their need for equal benefits and rights due them. What if a gay person preys on your children and wants to marry them Mrs. D? It's their right? "

Mrs.D wrote on May 17, 2008 8:51 PM:

" Chomp, chomp! Thanks for biting off! Mr. Truth and watchdog, we are evolving more. And with each evolution, things change. This is one of them! Since I believe that prison works, I don't think we should put the California Supreme Court in there for giving people their right to marriage. By spreading democracy in foreign countries, we're giving them their freedom to choose in Iraq and Afghanistan! This is what elected war mongers wanted, right?!

And besides, peodephiles are generally middle aged heterosexual males. Keep an eye on that lone neighbor who is alone in that big house all the time!

And you know what's wrong? People who are: embezelers, cheaters, drug addicts, alcoholics, compulsive gamblers, liars, Sunday Christians, child abusers, and AWOL servicemen. And a majority live in Hanford. Just look around or in the mirror. "

DL wrote on May 17, 2008 10:36 PM:

" This is a political issue not a legal issue. Whether you approve of gay marriage or not, the Court should have stayed out of it. Why can't the voters or the legislature make rules regarding the limits of marriage? Ironically, if the Court waited a few more years gay marriage would have probably have happened the only way it should, by the legislative process. Not imposed by judges. If the Supreme Court doesn't know it's role then they should be removed from office like we did in the 1980's to the Rose Bird court. "

So what wrote on May 17, 2008 10:55 PM:

" The judges are always making laws. I think we need to worry about prop. 187, the illegal aliens are messing up our state more than the immoral and unnatural homosexuals. They are not stealing our social security numbers and what not. As far as the homos go, as long as they don't push that life style on my family, and they stay out of the public parks, then let them have their perverted sex in their own house. "

dose wrote on May 17, 2008 11:31 PM:

" To Watchdog:

You do know that one of those idiots who appointed one of the judges who rendered this verdict was ronald reagan, also most of the justices
on the Calif. Supreme Court are republican. So if you want to blame someone blame your own party. And leave liberals out of it we had nothing to do with this.

Our country is being ruined by the these conservative activist judges. (See how dumb that sounds?) "

Hmmmmm wrote on May 18, 2008 12:56 PM:

" To Mrs. D, you act like "gay" people are perfect, that they don't commit any crime or that they don't drink or do drugs. What a joke, people of all genders including gays commit just as much crime as anyone else. Marriage was not created for the reason of just loving someone. If that were the case people would be marrying all kinds of things, pets included. I know several gay people and guess what they get into partnerships and out just as much as traditional people get divorces. Some gay people even marry in the opposite sex. Marriages of convience are not uncommon, but you see it happening all the time. Marriage was brought about as a union between a man and a woman and nothing else. Quit trying to let polictics take control of something GOD created. I see no reason why they cannot have their "partnerships" and leave the sanction of marriage for those it was intended. "

Mrs.D wrote on May 18, 2008 1:41 PM:

" RE: hmmmmmm, Yeah, honey! You are right. And by going what you stated, gay and lesbians are human, too. Which means they are also given human rights and the freedoms just like us heterosexuals. Thank you for seeing the light. Now if you like, I can make a donation in your name to DUH! "

ALEJANDRO wrote on May 18, 2008 9:25 PM:

" The truth is that liberals are trying to redefine the institution of marriage to include the homosexual lifestyle. From the bloggers here and over on the other topic site, it is clear that liberals want to force us all to accept the homosexual lifestyle as being normal, good, and proper.

In liberal California, gay couples, or non-gay couples who want to pair up in a union, can apply for a domestic partnership. When you have a meaningful alternative in place that addresses every legal issue you have a problem with, why do you have to usurp the traditional sacred vow of marriage?

When you get pushy, the people will push back.

Hey, isn't that originally a liberal quip?
"

Hate Hate Hate wrote on May 18, 2008 9:35 PM:

" Yeah, isn't that word (Hate) sore on the eyes? Same goes for "judgemental", "prejudice", and "homophobia." "

Let it go.. wrote on May 18, 2008 11:33 PM:

" I am very conservative but beleive that we have a lot of things that are more important to worry about than gay marriage. If two people want to be maried then let them do it! Shoudn't affect the rest of us. Lets save the arguements for something that affects more than just a few of us. "

Watchdog wrote on May 19, 2008 12:14 AM:

" Alejandro - Amigo don't let it get down deep so far under your skin. You and I both know this is not the end of this issue. The California Supreme Court has done soemthing unprecidented in our entire history and will pay a significantly higher price for it than you and I. They have interferred with a state wide vote that was given the seal of approval and certified by every Registrar throughout the State of California. The National Supreme Court is not about to let that stand. There are already initiatves on the national ballot coming this fall and all this merky mess will get straightened out. What the Justices have done as I said in another blog is the same crime as tampering with the ballots at a voting station. You cannot change a legal vote that has been on the books for eight years without a major battle in the Federal court system which has not happened yet. Once the national vote is taken it will supercede and override any other laws. Instead of Gay Marriage being unrecognized in a few states it will not be recognized nationally. "

Watchdog wrote on May 19, 2008 12:25 AM:

" Alejandro - the gay straight issue doesn't even come into play when you break the law, I don't care if you are a Judge of the California Supreme Court or not. They do not have the authority to throw out a 61 percent majority opinion and replace it with their mired judicial decision. Justices cannot hinder or entrap our rights with their mired decision. Look mire up that is the deffinition. You see this is the frull circle perhaps this will explain why I feel this way. This is all a part of that whole malfeasance scenario. This is when an appointed or elected official doesn't represent your rights in their decisions. We need to find out who appointed these Republican Judges and make sure the politician/s responsible don't get any further support from the Republican Party or from us as individuals. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, sometimes you just have to charge the power generator to be able to see it. Of course Jerry Brown approves,his candidacy has always depended on the Gay vote. That's why he campaigned and held office there. "

Watchdog wrote on May 19, 2008 12:33 AM:

" Alejandro - my suggestion is to anyone upset about this deluge the Governor's Lt. Governor's State Senator's and even Congressional representatives with complaint after complaint of this injustice and demand it be rectified. Start a telephone and letter campaign that will force attention on those four misguided Judges and see what the outcome is then. They say they are gonna put pressure on the Governor and other representatives lets show them what pressure in retaliation feels like. Do you know if the California Supreme Court is a lifetime appointment like the Federal Justice's if not they can be removed from office. What is the first thing the Illegal Immigrants do to overturn or place emphasis on something important affecting their lives, they march on city halls, state capitals and even Washington, D.C. I guarantee you, I am only passing along the same advise your Preachers/Pastors and other Clergymen will be telling you in services. Perhaps Hanford could have a national get out the vote day for the upcoming national convention and elections taking place in the fall? Maybe we need to meet at City Hall and let our voices be heard? "

Hmmmmm wrote on May 19, 2008 4:23 AM:

" Mrs. D, you are really showing how young and immature you really are. Prison works??? Works for who, why don't you look up the percentage of repeat offenders. But then, why would they really not be afraid to be imprisoned in California, they have more rights in prison then most of us do. California prisons are a luxury compared to other states. Maybe if California made prisoner rights less attractive and more of a hardship fewer people would enjoy spending that time in prison. Maybe it is you that should move from California to another state and see how other state rights work. You might be suprised. There is life outside of Lemoore. I don't agree with gay rights and you can call me whatever you like, I believe in GOD, and no I am not a bible thumper, you can believe in GOD without going to church or thumping on doors. I don't agree with Gay marriages as I don't consider it normal. Do what you want behind closed doors but don't flaunt it and expect all of us to except it. It ain't going to happen.
"

Insight wrote on May 19, 2008 2:53 PM:

" Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me... I once was lost .. but now I am found.. was blind.. but now ..I SEEE!!!..

Thank you Jesus!!!

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord....

"

Watchdog wrote on May 19, 2008 4:42 PM:

" I didn't reverse the decision of the voters those dumb sounding liberal hiding behind conservative pretentions did Dose. "

Watchdog wrote on May 19, 2008 4:56 PM:

" MRS D. just in case you haven't ran into this in your highly protected maximum security home. Privileges are earned through proper qualifications, rights are available to those who choose to live in society and comply with not only the judges decisions but the will of the majority of a voting electorate. We vote on our laws that is the only way to ensure everyone has an opinion and you take the majoritive opinion not the minority opinion. Our state has chosen to do just the opposite in direct violation with our history and the founding ideas that created this country. We elect our representatives to select officials who will interpet the laws and accept the will of the majority. You need to speak to your husband about the prisoners who vote and represent the other prisoners on decisions effecting them. Yes they even have a democracy in prison Mrs. D. They get to decide on what chip company they want and what particular types of chips to magazines etc. that is available for them to purchase in their prison store.
A warden wouldn't even think of trying to change that majoritive vote. "

Watchdog wrote on May 19, 2008 5:06 PM:

" Just some kud for us cows to chew on. When a nation is turned into a dictatorship is not the first move to upset/overrule the decision of the will of the people to be democratic? Doesn't a cabinet appointed by the dictators not take away the people's right to vote and have a say in how their country is ruled? Isn't communist rule the dictatorship telling the people what to do, instead of the people telling the President/Governor in this case what to do? This decision represents much more to me than losing one vote on one ballot. What if at the end of his term Arnold dictatess the State Supreme Court to do away with term limits and runs again for another term as governor. Isn't that someting a dictator could do with the precident of a decision like this one? Before all you gays go celebrating this issue you better take a look at the Big Picture developing before our eyes. What is the next vote/right that is discontinued in our great state based upon those magnificent seven Supreme Court Justices. What minor percentage do seven represent? "

Watchdog wrote on May 19, 2008 5:14 PM:

" Just some kud for us cows to chew on. CONTINUED What percentage do those seven people represent out of the millions and millions of people in this state. A fraction so small it would amaze anyone that such a minute electorate had that kind of authority over an entire state. Then the deciding factor is even smaller than that when you remember three of the seven voted against overturning the decision. That ladies and Gentleman is one of the ways a former Corporal became the Ruling Chancelor of Germany in the 1930's. Who went on to invade such countries as Austria, Africa, Poland, France, Italy and many more European countries and became Dictator at Large and began to masacre Jews in hope of exterminating an entire race from the continent. May sound like an extreme comparison to some of you, but you have to admit it's of the same mindset as the conquering emperors of old. Next thing you know hundreds of votes/rights are overturned, are we willing to take that chance? Just chew on that a while and get back to me, can't see the light for the burning candle? "

Mrs.D wrote on May 19, 2008 10:22 PM:

" Re:Hmmmmm, do the crime, do the time. Being gay or lesbian isn't a crime. It isn't a lifestyle choice. It is what it is; life.

Life. Get one! "

To Does Anybody Read The Bible Anymore wrote on May 20, 2008 1:41 AM:

" I will be more then happy to help you pack, people like you are the scariest thing and you would do the state of california a big favor by going someplace where you would feel more morally superior I mean first they let whites marry blacks and now this, what is the world coming to?? "

Christiangal wrote on May 20, 2008 2:45 AM:

" You know I believe with all my heart that God is on His way and I pray and hope that everyones own earthly lust doesn't cloud their view from what God has intended to be from the beginning. I love all people and I am more than willing to share the love that God has for us. He loves us but hates the sin. No we arent born gay, but as it states in the Bible your sins pass on to your children and their children. All the more reason to watch what we do in this lifetime. Lord Jesus have mercy on all of us, Because its our children who will suffer the cost. God Bless you all and Be with you. "

Scott Tucker wrote on May 20, 2008 3:24 AM:

" Watchdog, as Dandre did an excellent job of pointing out in a previous post, your understanding of the way our government works, with its three equal branches, is seriously flawed. Do some research and learn about other court decisions that, while unpopular with some of the populace, were correct and proper. Segregation, people valued as property, no voting rights for women: are these all things that you call activist decisions while accusing the judicial branch of our government of ignoring the will of the people? "

Anne V wrote on May 20, 2008 10:47 PM:

" I personally don't understand why American citizens are all worked up about people getting married. To love someone enough to share the rest of your life with is a big deal. Then to have children is another blessing, we all get the chance to enjoy. So why limit who gets that chance? Are we so closed minded that we can't let people live their lives. My mother is a very loving, voting, and taxpaying citizen who does not have the same rights as I do. She had to pay a lawyer a lot of money to have some of what my rights allow me. She is no different than you or I, just gay.
People, you need to get over yourselves!!! "

I am wrote on May 21, 2008 3:06 AM:

" I don't think the judges did anything wrong. They protected basic human rights. What I don't understand is how people get more outraged over gay marriage than sex offenders. Sex offenders are harmful to society than LGBTs. At least we are two consenting people.
I just wish people would stop trying to force religion on everyone..hint hint christians!!! Just because you believe it's wrong doesn't make you the holder of truth. "

Christiangal wrote on May 21, 2008 12:14 PM:

" It is so sad now to see so many young kids more and more coming out gay. And this seems ok with those who don't see the bigger picture. Not only that but kids now know more than alot of us at that age. They are getting younger and younger. I bet you if you ask a kid who is in middle school, better yet in elementary if they know about sex, most know more than we did at that age. A result of taking the Bible out of schools. Now we have to replace it with metal detectors and birth-control contreceptives. But that seems normal. It saddens me that we lost that fear of God and turned into our own judge of things. But I am not judging just stating facts. Sin is sin no matter if it is fornicating, murder, lying it is all judged the same. I pray we come to our senses. Because we dont want to fall into the hands of a living God. God Bless you all!!!! "

Dandre wrote on May 21, 2008 2:57 PM:

" Christiangal, there aren't 'more and more' kids coming out as 'gay', those proportions don't fluctuate.Its that they don't have to hide anymore bexcause there are 'less and less' authoriatarian bigots who pose a 'danger' to these Children of God, It wasn't that long ago that you were taking your life in your hands because of the murderers who lynched them while saying under their breath, 'its not me that hates its god that hates.'
the majority of 'straight' children accept these children on their own terms because there are 'fewer and fewer' who have been brainwashed by their so called 'religious' parents that convinced them that God is 'capable' of 'HATE'!
I call that child abuse! "

Watchdog wrote on May 21, 2008 7:19 PM:

" Alejandro - BF - christian girl - Robert D - all interested people. I invite you to contact National Organization for Marriage California. They use the acronym NOM. They have a lot of information including that the lobbyist for Gays have pledged to spend 15 Million Dollars to keep the vote for marriage off the national ballat in November. This is all about the money behind it and this is written proof of why it was overturned. I told you it was lobbyist behind it, in my original comments. So go read and get the LD on what's in the air with this gary marriage rights issue. "

Watchdog wrote on May 21, 2008 7:20 PM:

" Mrs. D are you from ElDorado, Tx.? "

Devils Advocate wrote on May 21, 2008 7:24 PM:

" Dandre - how do you know that the proportions don't fluctuate, if the historical gays didn't come out? I mean, it sounds logical, but still I know plenty of things that sound logical, but aren't on further examination. For example, I would expect a tremendous population surge resulting from the Baby Boom generation having children - didn't happen. I'm more inclined to believe that your assertin is false - I believe it can fluctuate. One thing I do know is that people living in a private sexually-perverted environment, that regularly expose themselves privately to sexually-perverted media, show a greater tendency to engage in sexual perversion, even when most social mores condemn the perversion. Proven statistically. I have to ask the question (plead the 5th if you need to), how many people have you lynched? I'm assuming you are either the lynch-er or lynch-ee since you are familiar with what happens during lynch-ings, and I'm going with the logic that you have to be alive to post on the Sentinel... "

jeff wrote on May 22, 2008 1:06 AM:

" According to the U.S. Department of Justice, in a given year there are about 88,000 documented cases of sexual abuse among juveniles. In the roughly 17,500 cases involving children between ages 6 and 11, strangers are the perpetrators just 5 percent of the time — and just 3 percent of the time when the victim is under age 6. (Further, more than a third of such molesters are themselves juveniles, who may not be true “predators” so much as confused or unruly teens.) Overall, the odds that one of America’s 48 million children under age 12 will encounter an adult pedophile at the local park are startlingly remote. The Child Molestation Research & Prevention Institute puts it like so: “Right now, 90 percent of our efforts go toward protecting our children from strangers, when what we need to do is to focus 90 percent of our efforts toward protecting children from the abusers who are not strangers.” "

jeff wrote on May 22, 2008 1:07 AM:

" That’s a diplomatic way of phrasing the uncomfortable but factually supported truth: that if your child is not molested in your own home — by you, your significant other, or someone else you invited in — chances are your child will never be molested anywhere. DA you’re also wrong about the Baby Boomers http://www.bbhq.com/bomrstat.htm "

Dandre wrote on May 22, 2008 2:46 AM:

" Devils ad...
I took it that she was saying more kids were 'choosing' to be gay as the reason for the fluctuation of those coming out, wheras, I contend that the percentage of gays in the population hadn't fluctuated but the bigger fluctuation was in the numbers that 'came out'. and
I am simply pointing out that within my lifetime and yours too if you are over 30, these 'hate' crimes have been committed using the same religious arguments used here to justify the 'admitted' bigotry-lite on these posts.
"

THEREALDOG wrote on May 22, 2008 10:52 AM:

" We are fighting in Iraq so that we don't have two airliners crash into more buildings.....People we can't argue with MRS D anymore she knows everything she is just to smart for us......Mr. Truth and watchdog she is a full blown LIBERAL she is gone.......They live in a fake world where everyting is ok and need not worry about anything just love and peace......I will tell you what it does not work like that......just ask clinton he was sleeping around when 9-11 was being planned he fell asleep on the job......come on guys we are talking to a lady that likes MRS Clinton how can she make america happy when she could not even make Billy happy...Mrs D let me guess you favorite part in Disneyland must be fantacy land because thats where you live.... "

Devils Advocate wrote on May 22, 2008 12:02 PM:

" Jeff - in the link you provided: at the bottom there is a section titled "Another Boom On The Way?" It completely supports my statement.
Dandre - I think I understood your position the first time. You're saying that homosexuals have always made up a certain percentage of the population; its just been unreported in the past. I'm disagreeing completely; I believe a person can be influenced to perform homosexual behavior through media that they otherwise would not have engaged in. I'm not saying everyone watching Brokeback Mountain goes gay. What I am saying is that a person forming their sexual identity (something everyone does continually) can be influenced by what they are exposed to. I'd even go so far to say that with enough exposure to the right media in the right environment, people will change their proclivities. There is currently a statistical spike (contributory causation) in child molestation resultng from the availablility of child pornography on the internet. Follow it through - if people will engage in socially-repugnant sexual behavior through media exposure, how much more so less-taboo behavior (homosexuality)? Have you seen stats on out-of-control heteros similarly affected? "

ME wrote on May 22, 2008 2:40 PM:

" Adults who sexually abuse children are a diverse group. No one race, religion, level of intelligence, level of education, occupation, group of occupations, or income sets perpetrators apart from the rest of the population. Most often, child molestors are:
1. Heterosexual
2. male
3. acquainted with the victim
Perhaps the most surprising finding of the past two decades of research is that the greatest danger children face is not from strangers. The child is at great risk inside the home. One study found that out of 139,000 confirmed cases of child sexual abuse reported to state child-protective agencies in 1992, most of the children were thought to have been sexually abused by relatives and friends. Another researcher studied adult women who reported being sexually abused as children. Only 25 percent reported being sexually abused by a stranger, while the rest reported being abused by relatives family, friends, neighbors, and authority figures like baby-sitters. A similiar study of male victims found 34 percent were abused by strangers while 66 percent reported being abused by relatives and acquaintances---Ernie Allen, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children "

Dandre wrote on May 22, 2008 3:13 PM:

" Devil’sAd….
If Gays are influenced into ‘gay-dom’ who influenced the ‘first’ gay?
Don't tell me you haven't heard of the, proverbial, chicken before egg mystery….So gays are ‘brainwashed’ into gay-dom! From what I learned in biology and some research into the reproductive process what you are saying doesn’t jive. Also, the REAL people that I have known throughout my life, who are gay, do not come close to fitting your model and would be insulted by it with good reason.
You refer to a spike in child molestation-another thing that has been unreported historically- as proof of what, the Catholic Church must have been providing 'illicit material' to Her priests?
Is it possible you are describing yourself here, your name is telling…
"

Dandre wrote on May 22, 2008 5:43 PM:

" To 'ME',
Great post "

Devils Advocate wrote on May 22, 2008 7:04 PM:

" Dandre - Just so I'm clear, what did you mean by: "From what I learned in biology and some research into the reproductive process what you are saying doesn’t jive."? And what was the "good reason" to be insulted? I truly don't know how I may have insulted anyone. Can you please explain? "

Christiangal wrote on May 23, 2008 12:52 PM:

" First off Dandre I am merly stating what is true. Yes since sin came into the world it came in the form of murder, pervertedness, lust, adultry, thefts, evil thoughts, etc. In Romans 1:25-27 (KJV) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. read on to (v.28-32) These are not of my own words and i am concerned for this world. I dont hate anyone nor do i wish any bad on anyone. God is love but He does Hate sin. He doesnt hate the person, but He hates the sin. He is on His way and all i am saying is wake up and seek and you will find. But research it and everything in the Bible is true. It is my soul and i am going to make sure i know where i am headed. God Bless you Dandre. "

Will A wrote on May 23, 2008 2:12 PM:

" Why are "progresive" issues always things that slide towards the degenerate? It's always about being inclusive of things that are against the status quo in our moral understanding as a culture. why the hell is that progress? Are moral understandings really so completely worthless? If so we should just do away with any moral grounds at all for anything.

I'm just waiting for a murder case to be defended as a first amendment right because the killer was "expressing themselves".

Whatever you may feel about homosexuality, it frankly makes no biological sense no matter how you cut it. It's an abberation of nature. Gays are people that deserve as much respect as anyone else, but calling this MARRIAGE is pulling our culture in another degenerate direction. I still don't see why in the hell we cannot have civil unions that offer all the exact same benefits as marriage. Words mean something though. "

Good People wrote on May 23, 2008 4:37 PM:

" I am not gay, however some of my best friends and the most loving, carring, unselfish and giving people I know are gay. Most of them have been in relationships longer than most marriages have lasted. These people would do anything for ANYONE and not ask for a favor in return. I love my friends and support them 100%. I also love my son who also happens to be gay, he is an outstanding person and has brought the best person into our life when he introduced us to his partner in life, as well as his partners family. Don't judge others, you never know when you will be introduced to this lifestyle by someone you love. "

Dandre wrote on May 26, 2008 2:44 PM:

" Yea, we need to get back to when whitemen could abuse their wives, children, farmworkers, slaves, employees, Catholics, Irish, Italians, did I forget somebody?
The Country has definitely degenerated by giving people more rights.
We need to restrict the right to vote because conservative leaders didn’t think the ‘riff raff’ was smart enough to vote anyway!
Aaaah! The good old days….. when every white kid could, comfortably, used the ‘n’ word
GOD BLESS EVOLUTION!
"As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."

George Washington
"

Mrs. inconsistent wrote on May 26, 2008 6:18 PM:

" Why even bring up fighting for freedom in Iraq if you don't even support that war? I'll be happy to sign the new state Amendment banning gay marriage. "

reality check wrote on May 26, 2008 6:21 PM:

" Mrs D, who do you think will pay all the State bills if the conservatives move out?? You?? I dout it. I'm sure you support all the liberal welfare programs and the like, but without all us hated conservative workers and companies these people may actually have to learn to carry their own weight for once. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on May 27, 2008 4:46 PM:

" Dandre' thanks for finally being so honest now I understand the chip on your shoulder. I truly appologize for any injustice you may have suffered in your seven decades. Thank God for Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, Ceaser Chavez, The Kennedy's, for all the change they have given us all. The first campaign you participated in was 1965 the slogan was all the way with LBJ. Now it all is starting to make sense to me. LBJ that liberal democrat who escalated the bombing in Vietnam brought in the B-52's so they could carpet bomb. Then came tricky dicky Nixon who further escalated things. Kent State errupts into violence and those dirty National Guardsmen kill studen protestors. Haven't things changed now the NG is doing all the fighting. Nixon also gave the military their first significant raise in a decade. Nixon finally deescalates and ends the war in Vietnam. Now things are beginning to become very clear and understandable. Then there was Watergate and all heck broke lose in the Republican Party and Gerald Ford enters the scene and pardons tricky dicky for any wrong doing. "

Nixon for President wrote on May 29, 2008 9:17 PM:

" If you study the history book a little bit, Nixon was a very intelligent president and a damn good president. I would vote for him over everyone who has run for office since Reagan. Sure he made some mistakes, but nothing compared to our current group of presidents. "




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